Mike Mearls Happy Fun Hour: The Warlord

[Zardnaar]

The tradition of wounds at 0 hp is valuable.

But, I dislike rolling random outcomes on a variegated table.

I want a more flexible mechanic that follows the narrative context, and yields organic outcomes.

Simple rule? Gain a level of exhaustion when reduced to 0hp? Makes things like whack a mole with healing word and healer feat mean something.

 

[Yaarel]

Simple rule? Gain a level of exhaustion when reduced to 0hp? Makes things like whack a mole with healing word and healer feat mean something.

On and off, I tinker with something like the use of exhaustion levels. If there is a seemless way to equate certain exhaustion conditions with certain physical trauma conditions, it can probably work well.

Hit zero too many times, it increases the exhaustion level, in other words, might aggravate the wound or inflict new wounds. It can make sense.

Moreover, using the exhaustion table as the gauge, the DM can decide how such a condition translates narratively into a certain kind of wound.

 

[Mistwell]

The warlord has to heal meaningfully at level 1.

Healing boosts can come later, level 3 and up, as spell slots avail.

But there must be a healing method in place at level 1.

No, it doesn't. There is nothing about the Warlord which screams "must heal immediately, as a multiclass level dip healer option". None.

 

[FrogReaver]

He went over this in the first warlord stream. They don't balance around best case scenario, they want those players who play these combos to feel powerful.

If all the best case scenario takes is having a rogue in the party then that's surely not the same kind of overly optimized best case scenario that he was implying didn't get looked at.

 

[Zardnaar]

No, it doesn't. There is nothing about the Warlord which screams "must heal immediately, as a multiclass level dip healer option". None.

4E one could do that and its not unreasonable in concept (unlike say action granting at will). Even if its a bit better than a clerics healing word they can't turn it into a guiding bolt or bless spell so trading a bit of power vs versatility is fine. A Warlord holy word could deal 1d8 instead of 1d4 for example.

What i am struggling with is how to scale the warlords healing vs say a cleric who gets upgrades at level 2 with things like song of healing and more spell slots. Currently thinking the WL may be better at it at lower levels and then fall behind as the cleric levels up and the cleric is still better at removing conditions- death, disease, missing limbs etc.

 

[cbwjm]

If all the best case scenario takes is having a rogue in the party then that's surely not the same kind of overly optimized best case scenario that he was implying didn't get looked at.

I didn't explain it right. When I said best case scenario, I should have said best damage. So rather than balancing around a rogue's sneak attack or paladin's smite they look at the 3rd best damage. I believe when he was considering the cost of giving up an attack he was looking at other fighters. As in, it has to be worth giving up an attack and giving it to another fighter. I still haven't seen the latest video, I intend to watch it tonight, but yeah, sneak attack isn't what they think of when designing abilities like this. Actually, one of the best things about this series (I feel like I've mentioned this before) is seeing how they go about the design process.

 

[mellored]

.
There is no way to make the warlord match the cleric or bard in 5e without giving him 9 levels of spells.

Warlords Foresight.
At level 17, you become a master at predicting what's going to happen. Select a creature, they gains advantage on all attacks and saving throws, and creatures have disadvantage when they attack them.

Straight level 9 spell works fine.

 

[Mistwell]

4E one could do that and its not unreasonable in concept (unlike say action granting at will). Even if its a bit better than a clerics healing word they can't turn it into a guiding bolt or bless spell so trading a bit of power vs versatility is fine. A Warlord holy word could deal 1d8 instead of 1d4 for example.

What i am struggling with is how to scale the warlords healing vs say a cleric who gets upgrades at level 2 with things like song of healing and more spell slots. Currently thinking the WL may be better at it at lower levels and then fall behind as the cleric levels up and the cleric is still better at removing conditions- death, disease, missing limbs etc.

I didn't say it was an "unreasonable concept" I said there is nothing about the Warlord that makes healing a "must" for first level. It would be just as reasonable to have it happen at level 3 for example.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The problem is, you can't do that in 5e without magic.

For one thing, there's no Warlord.

Seriously, 5e has neither mechanical deficiencies nor complete conceptual blind spots that prevent it from handling non-magical archetypes from genre or history.

There is a pervasive attitude, born from the inertia of the classic game, and who knows what pathologies from the dark depths of the nerd psyche, that in D&D, magic can do virtually anything, and that, contrarywise, without magic, virtually nothing is possible.

Look at the rules of the early game, before the Thief, the only non-magical endeavor detailed with any meaningful reference to the ever-growing-with-level abilities of characters was combat.

Over 40 years, and the prime contribution of the handful of non-magical sub-classes in the PH is DPR. There's at least a cursory skill system, but in it, skill is just a modest proficiency bonus to a check literally anyone could attempt.

Fortunately, it doesn't end there, there's all sorts of things beyond just big hps and big damage pointing to characters being able to do more than just the most mundane things. They're just scattered about, some feats, a couple fighter features, etc... HD, of course.

Its a matter, on the design side, of bringing them together, scaling them up, and putting together something that delivers.

It's a matter, on our side, of getting other players and DMs to open their minds enough to give it a chance. And, 5e seems like a better environment for that than 4e was.

A Warlord can't remove status ailments like poison or disease.

He shouldn't be able to, literally, he's not some kind of medieval ER doc. But, inspire an ally to ignore the penalties one inflicts for a round or a combat, sure, maybe even make the difference between surviving or succumbing as it runs it's course.

He can't raise a dead ally.

Resurections certainly off the table but saving one at the brink of that last death save should be fine.

He has no access to divination or transportation magic.

Spies and smugglers have gotten information and people and things where they shouldn't be for centuries.

No access to survival magic like goodberry, create food or rope trick.

Amazingly, sufficiently competent and determined people survive incredible hardship without being able to conjure food & shelter from nothing.

And at high level, he's going to lack even reasonable buffs and debuffs that can match mindblank, antipathy, or holy aura.

Antipathy gets subjects to avoid something. Manipulation can do that.

Similarly much of what mindblank does could be mental discipline.

There is no way to match these abilities without magic or extreme handwaving.

You don't have magic, either, without some 'extreme handwaving,' so I'm fine with waving away as much as it takes.

The ally we saw die was an imposter? An evil twin? The artifact hasn't really been taken to the 481st layer of the abyss, it's hidden right in this building? Sure. Call it 'author force' call it melodrama...

And, y'know, that gets closer to a lot of genre bits than D&D magic...
...not that that's a high bar.

There is no way to make the warlord match the cleric or bard in 5e without giving him 9 levels of spells.

Of course there is, just give it equally useful, but non-magical capability. After all, 9th level spells are a 1/day thing restricted to the highest levels.

The best you can do it match a paladin, barbarian or ranger in terms of "warrior with special powers", but a character that tries to do a cleric or bard's job without magic is doomed to fail.

Sorry, no. D&D is not so dysfunctional as that, no matter how many if it's fans may be.

 

[Zardnaar]

I didn't say it was an "unreasonable concept" I said there is nothing about the Warlord that makes healing a "must" for first level. It would be just as reasonable to have it happen at level 3 for example.

All the other support characters heal at level 1 along with classes like paladin and self heal fighter.