Will you make transsexual Elves canon in your games ?

[Sunseeker]

I imagine the Blessing means, one day you look like Leonardo Di Vinci, and the next day you look like Mona Lisa.

Most people would assume these are two different people.

(Apparently, the Mona Lisa is a scientific experimented, where Leonardo wanted to know what he would look like if he was born female rather than male.)

Ah the Mona Lisa, the most ridiculously speculated-about piece of art ever.

Alternatively, I think the simplest solution would be for the player to "pick their appearance" the first time they use the Blessing (in game) for each of the respective sexual options (male, female, neither, both). Which would add an element of "you're flexible, but not a changeling". Although some racial feat options to open it up down the road might be interesting.

Still wish 5E had a full-on shape-changing class.

 

[Yaarel]

Ah the Mona Lisa, the most ridiculously speculated-about piece of art ever.

Alternatively, I think the simplest solution would be for the player to "pick their appearance" the first time they use the Blessing (in game) for each of the respective sexual options (male, female, neither, both). Which would add an element of "you're flexible, but not a changeling". Although some racial feat options to open it up down the road might be interesting.

Still wish 5E had a full-on shape-changing class.

I agree, the Blessing entails, specific alternate forms. One version of self as male, and one version of self as female, ... and one version of self as both.

These two or so forms can be very different from each other but each is a fixed form.

 

[Maxperson]

It seems like you’re being pretty selective about what ‘real world’ issues you bring into the game and which disturb your restful escape. I mean what about gay characters? Do they disturb your rest? Shall we brush out the gay characters from 5e products like Curse of Strahd? What about black characters, if it disturbs you we can whitewash them out? At the end of the day women only got the vote in the last century, we can go full tolkein and take women out of games as well.

You are confusing bringing in real world issues, and people simply being dark or gay in the game. They are different things. If a race has dark skin in D&D, that race does not correspond to any real world race and real world issues of racism should not be brought into the game. The same with someone who just decides to play a gay PC or NPC. That decision has nothing to do with being pro or anti gay. It's just a decision on something to play.

If someone wanted to play a transgender PC in my game, I'd work with them to make it happen. There are girdles of masculinity/femininity, curses, magical accidents, capricious fey, divine blessings(though I'd probably go with Sune), and much more. That allows transgender without the blatant real world issues regarding transgender coming into the game like they are with what WotC is doing. And it's not limited to elf. What's more, what WotC is doing doesn't actually fix anything. Those that would disallow transgender in their game won't play with these rules, and those that would allow it don't need the rules as they would do what I would do and figure out a way.

So no, I absolutely reject your argument that it has an impact.

Reject it all you like. You can't be correct in your rejection. The impact is based on perception, which is subjective. Just because it doesn't impact YOU, doesn't mean that it doesn't have an impact on those of us who want real world issues to stay out of the game.

 

[MoonSong]

I think my point was that for all of this talk about what people are going to include or not include in D&D, as a player and as a DM, I still prefer the tried and true: Because I said so.

Noone is injecting a culture war into D&D by including, or really not including anything else when their argument is "This is the way it is." That was my point in using the "Don't start none..." line.

If someone includes the Blessing simply because they think it should exist in their game, regardless of if it is every elf, a few elves, half the elves, or whatever there is nothing political about its inclusion. The DM has simply decided that sex-switching elves are something that exist in their world. No more than if they decided that they don't or that anything else does or doesn't exist. This falls into the "Don't start none."

Conversely, if elements are being included, or excluded on the basis of IRL cultural issues, then that is by definition "Starting something". The DM is injecting their politics into the game not by the nature of the elements they are including or excluding, but by the nature of why they are including or excluding those elements.

It's one of the reasons I took such a strong objection to [MENTION=6689464]MoonSong[/MENTION] here.

I think pming had it right. I'm also bowing out of this thread. No matter what I say, you -and others- are already convinced I'm some kind of genocidal biggoted monster of sorts. If I offended someone, I'm sorry. If you -undetermined you- got the wrong impression of me, I'm sorry too. I was just trying to explain why I'm not in love with the Blessing of Corellon and why I don't plan to use it. It seems I'm not as good with English as I thought. (Or that I underestimated the cultural barriers).

Happy gaming all.

 

[Mouseferatu]

You are missing another option: the campaign is centered on "beat up the Bad Guys and steal their stuff". There isn't any 'character building' or RP going on; no time is spent on sex or gender or romantic relationships.

I didn't miss that at all.

I rather doubt that, even in the most combat/tactical-focused, RP-less campaigns, there is zero sign of romantic relationships. You never have married NPCs? Never a king and queen of the realm? Never a family living in a farmhouse whose fields are being destroyed by ankhegs?

And even if you somehow don't have any of that, you have gender.

People overlook what they consider baseline, but it's still present.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I'm also bowing out of this thread. No matter what I say, you -and others- are already convinced I'm some kind of genocidal biggoted monster of sorts.

Even if you choose not to respond, I just want to be clear.

I don't think anybody was calling you a bigot or a monster. I know I wasn't. We were saying that we think you're making a mistake and possibly sending a message you didn't mean to send.

If I thought you were a bigot or a monster, I wouldn't have bothered conversing with you. It's precisely because I don't think so that I said what I said.

 

[TheSword]

You are confusing bringing in real world issues, and people simply being dark or gay in the game. They are different things. If a race has dark skin in D&D, that race does not correspond to any real world race and real world issues of racism should not be brought into the game. The same with someone who just decides to play a gay PC or NPC. That decision has nothing to do with being pro or anti gay. It's just a decision on something to play.

If someone wanted to play a transgender PC in my game, I'd work with them to make it happen. There are girdles of masculinity/femininity, curses, magical accidents, capricious fey, divine blessings(though I'd probably go with Sune), and much more. That allows transgender without the blatant real world issues regarding transgender coming into the game like they are with what WotC is doing. And it's not limited to elf. What's more, what WotC is doing doesn't actually fix anything. Those that would disallow transgender in their game won't play with these rules, and those that would allow it don't need the rules as they would do what I would do and figure out a way.


Reject it all you like. You can't be correct in your rejection. The impact is based on perception, which is subjective. Just because it doesn't impact YOU, doesn't mean that it doesn't have an impact on those of us who want real world issues to stay out of the game.

I’m sorry but you’ve created the artificial term ‘real world issues’ to actually put a polite label on an ugly sentiment. What precise ‘issue’ as you describe it does the Blessed of Corellon bring into the game? How is allowing Sune (a forgotten Realms god) making characters trans any different to what WOC has done in MToF?

Let’s be very clear. You are the one that claims simply existing in game cause ‘real world issues’. I have confused nothing. At no point have I said that a gay character requires bringing issues like homophobia into the game. WOC has expressly stated they aren’t interested in politicizing gay characters... their NPCs sexuality is incidental.

What are these issues? How are they being forced on anyone?

DMs don’t need to figure out a way (using curses... I can’t actually believe you described being trans as a curse In the context of this discussion) because WOC have provided one in d&d lore.

 

[Maxperson]

I think pming had it right. I'm also bowing out of this thread. No matter what I say, you -and others- are already convinced I'm some kind of genocidal biggoted monster of sorts. If I offended someone, I'm sorry. If you -undetermined you- got the wrong impression of me, I'm sorry too. I was just trying to explain why I'm not in love with the Blessing of Corellon and why I don't plan to use it. It seems I'm not as good with English as I thought. (Or that I underestimated the cultural barriers).

Happy gaming all.

Bowing out is probably the smart thing to do. You shouldn't apologize for someone else's biases being incorrectly applied to you, though. That's on them, not you.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't think anybody was calling you a bigot or a monster. I know I wasn't. We were saying that we think you're making a mistake and possibly sending a message you didn't mean to send.

She wasn't though. You are biased in the other direction and are letting your biases cause you to see things that aren't there in what we are saying.

 

[Maxperson]

I’m sorry but you’ve created the artificial term ‘real world issues’ to actually put a polite label on an ugly sentiment. What precise ‘issue’ as you describe it does the Blessed of Corellon bring into the game? How is allowing Sune (a forgotten Realms god) making characters trans any different to what WOC has done in MToF?

There is a push in the entertainment world to push PC ideas by introducing them through their entertainment. We saw it in Black Panther. We saw it in Infinity War when Thanos started preaching about using up resources. Hollywood is the biggest partaker in this sort of thing, but authors do it, and games have started doing it. It's pretty clear that WotC is introducing this because of transgender in the real world.

Oh, and what exactly is this "ugly sentiment" you are incorrectly attributing to me?

DMs don’t need to figure out a way (using curses... I can’t actually believe you described being trans as a curse In the context of this discussion) because WOC have provided one in d&d lore.

It's simply one of the various methods to achieve transgender. Keep your biases away from me.