Nentir Vale Coming to Dungeons and Dragons

[Jester David]

Ever had a video game series that you really loved, that was kind of obscure, but just fit your tastes perfectly? Then a sequel came out, that wasn’t as good, but was way more popular? Sure, you’re happy that the series is finally getting the recognition it deserved, but you know that most of the newcomers aren’t going to go back and play the originals. And you can’t even blame them - those older entries are amazing, but the graphics have aged really poorly, and the later games have a lot of quality of life improvements that would make the old ones feel really inconvenient to anyone who got into the series with the new games. So, while you’re glad people are getting into the series, it kinda sucks knowing that this newest entry will probably be seen as the definitive example of the series, when to you, it’s just the inferior casual-friendly version.

That’s kinda how this feels. I love Nentir Vale. I love that it might finally get the attention it deserves. But it’s kind of a bummer that new folks will be getting what feels like the more casual-friendly sequel. And I very much doubt that many who are introduced to it through Mearls’s Vale are going to go back and read the source material in books for an outdated version of the game, let alone actually play 4e. More likely, Mearl’s Vale is what most people are going to think of when they hear “Nentir Vale.” And that’s too bad, cause the original is (in my opinion) so much better.

I refer to that feeling as "the hipster's dilemma".
In that you liked Nentir Vale before it was cool. Before it sold out and went mainstream for streaming.

 

[Charlaquin]

I refer to that feeling as "the hipster's dilemma".
In that you liked Nentir Vale before it was cool. Before it sold out and went mainstream for streaming.

Except that my preference for Nentir Vale as presented in 4e is not rooted in my early adoption of it. I don’t resent that it “sold out” or “went mainstream.” Like I said, I’m glad it’ll be getting more attention. I just don’t like Mearls’s take on the setting. That’s why I used the video game analogy instead of music.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I refer to that feeling as "the hipster's dilemma".
In that you liked Nentir Vale before it was cool. Before it sold out and went mainstream for streaming.

The hipsters are right, very occasionally. Very occasionally.

I do think that Mearl's version sounds less interesting than the 4e version, but this is the guy in charge of the team that took the Raven Queen from her "one of the most interesting deities in DnD, ever" status and made her "kinda lame edgelady who is borderline evil but presented as neutral because reasons", for literally no discernible reason.

I like Mike, and I like 5e. I even like Morty's Fome of Toes, and I'll check out the stream, but this so far feels like the next "let's make the Raven Queen into an interloper in the land of death, who rips people from their natural progression to the next life and makes them relive their worst moments for her entertainment" move.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

And that's bad because...?

If more people learn about the Vale, isn't that good?
And to learn more, wouldn't they turn to the 4e products and fan wiki? And thus see the original?
Won't they also just do their own thing anyway?

[MENTION=6779196]Charlaquin[/MENTION] says it better than I ever could.

Edit: and [MENTION=6704184]doctorbadwolf[/MENTION] too

 

[Jester David]

I do think that Mearl's version sounds less interesting than the 4e version,

But there are others who would disagree.
He's doing what he wants with the setting and would probably argue that what YOU did with the setting was less interesting than the 4e version. Does that make yours bad?

but this is the guy in charge of the team that took the Raven Queen from her "one of the most interesting deities in DnD, ever" status and made her "kinda lame edgelady who is borderline evil but presented as neutral because reasons", for literally no discernible reason.

How do you know that was him and not Jeremy Crawford? Or one of the other five designers who wrote the Tome of Foes section he is drawing from?

 

[Jester David]

Except that my preference for Nentir Vale as presented in 4e is not rooted in my early adoption of it. I don’t resent that it “sold out” or “went mainstream.” Like I said, I’m glad it’ll be getting more attention. I just don’t like Mearls’s take on the setting. That’s why I used the video game analogy instead of music.

Isn't it NOT about early adoption?
You liked how it was in the early days. And now the tone and feel is changing for a new audience that may not include you. That's the heart of hipsters hating on bands for changing their sound.

If you don't like Mearl's take, that's fine. But don't pretend a streaming show that might end up watched by 50k will revitalise the Nentire Vale, drive hundreds of people to the setting, and officially change what that setting is about.
It's not like Chris Perkins' Forgotten Realms in Dice, Camera, Action has suddenly become more canonical.

 

[Charlaquin]

I feel like 2e Darksun fans who hate 4e Darksun don’t get this kind of pushback for their personal preference for the original version of their setting. Or Realms fans for hating 4e FR. Like, I’m not trying to start a petition to stop Mearls from doing his stream or anything, I’m just expressing being conflicted about a setting I like returning, but changed in a way I don’t like. It’s not as if that’s at all unusual in this hobby. But, I guess 4e fans don’t get to express our opinions. We’re all just objectively wrong about everything and should know to keep our wrong opinions to ourselves.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

But there are others who would disagree.
He's doing what he wants with the setting and would probably argue that what YOU did with the setting was less interesting than the 4e version. Does that make yours bad?


How do you know that was him and not Jeremy Crawford? Or one of the other five designers who wrote the Tome of Foes section he is drawing from?

In reading the text you quoted, you should have seen the answer to your question. In the first line of that section of text, in fact, where I say “the guy in charge of the team that”. My point wasn’t that he wrote it himself, but that he oversaw and approved the thematic elements of that book. His idea of someone else’s, he is the guy who green lit what came out.

As for the first point, it’s pretty well moot. I’m not a dnd designer.

 

[Satyrn]

I refer to that feeling as "the hipster's dilemma".
In that you liked Nentir Vale before it was cool. Before it sold out and went mainstream for streaming.

I dread the day I hear New World Man in the background of a clothing commercial, or when Tom Sawyer becomes the theme music for a TV show.

 

[Retreater]

Another "watch other people play D&D show?" No thanks.
Mike Mearls? Double no thanks.