What "rules that are not rules" did I quote in my post? My starting assumption was simple: in order for you to be able to do something in combat, there must be a rule that says you can do that thing. If we can't agree on that, then there isn't much point in continuing this debate really.
We do agree on that.
Where we disagree is on the 'rule' you made up restricting when on my turn I can take my bonus action.
On p189 of the PHB, in the section entitled Bonus Actions, it tells you the rules for...bonus actions! There was a clue in the name!
It says, "
You choose
when to take a bonus during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified".
It says nothing like, "...except during another action", or, "...except between taking the Attack action and executing your first attack".
The only 'timing' regarding Shield Master is that you only get it "If you take the Attack action on your turn".
Even if you regard this as a straight statement of causality, that results in you being able to choose to take the bonus action shield bash at the same time as you take the Attack action that 'caused' it.
There is no rule forbidding simultaneous Actions In Combat, only rules which mean that each separate game
element must be
resolved sequentially.
The lack of an explicit rule that says you can take a bonus action with a timing requirement during the action that triggers it means you cannot do that.
The
presence of a rule that says you CAN take it when you want during your turn, and the complete
absence of a rule forbidding it, means you CAN do that!
There is absolutely no burden upon the Bonus Action rules to spell out every single occasion you CAN use it! All it needs is to say you CAN use it when you want, and that is enough. It is 'what it says on the tin'!
Otherwise, what's the point of the rules? Please see my foundational assumption: there must be a rule that says you can do something, or else you cannot do it. We do not need rules describing all the things you cannot do, the simple lack of a rule allowing it is all that is needed.
That's what I just said! We DO have a rule which says you can, on p189 of the PHB!
Surely, the text of the general rule is what reveals how those rules work? Why are you adding things on top of what the rule says? Just do what the rule says, nothing more, nothing less.
I am! I'm doing what is says on the tin, which is "You choose when to take a bonus action on your turn"! It's
you who's inventing unwritten extra restrictions in crayon!
- There's a rule that says the Attack action means making a weapon attack.
- There's a rule that says Extra Attack means the Attack action gives you 2 (or more) attacks.
- There's a rule that says you can move between weapon attacks.
And the rule which says you can move between attacks is true.
And the rule which says you can take your bonus action when you want in your turn is also true.
They are not mutually exclusive! The rule allowing you to move between attacks is
not a rule
disallowing anything else between attacks, and this unwritten 'rule' cannot trump the written rule which says that you choose when to take your bonus action.
Where's the rule that says you can inject a bonus action that is triggered from the Attack action in between weapon attacks?
PHB, p189.
The lack of explicit permission to do that means you cannot do that.
The presence of the rule on p189 means I can. That, combined with no rule forbidding it, means I can.
It is absurd to assume that the general rule regarding when you can take your bonus action must include every single specific exception! That's not how the rules work and you know it!
IF there were a written rule (not in crayon!) that says that 'during' the Attack action is an exception to the general rule on the timing of bonus actions, then you'd be right. There is not, so you're wrong.
I listed out the order of discrete operations for an Attack action with multiple attacks and movement, and the point at which the rules allow you to perform the bonus action shove. Again, the rule says you can move between attacks. That's the only thing you can do in between attacks of the attack action.
Not so. There IS a rule which says you CAN on p189, and no rule which forbids it. The permission to
move between attacks does not trump other rules which say you CAN do those things whenever they say they can be used.
The explicit rule that allows for movement between attacks does result in the Attack action as a whole being split into several discrete elements, as I've explained many times in this thread already. However, that rule is the only rule that says you can do something between the attacks in the Attack action.
PHB p189 disagrees.
The rules need to give you permission to do something, or else you can't do it.
I do have permission. It's on p189.
That is, the Attack action must be complete for the game state to be logically consistent when you perform the bonus action shove, because your turn could be interrupted and ended at any point in time before that.
There is nothing illogical about doing things between attacks!
The fact that you may lose the opportunity to
execute those attacks is already an element of the game (
sanctuary, Readied actions,
contingency) and does not present a problem whatsoever. You took both the action and the bonus action at the same time, and chose the order of resolution.
Please quote the rule(s) that allow you to insert a bonus action that is triggered by the Attack action in between attacks of that action, then.
It's on p189. It says I can choose when to take my bonus action during my turn.
I've been very clear about the rules text I used for my example.
I've quoted the rule; it's on p189.
Meanwhile, you've added crayon rules to add restrictions. Fine at your table, but we are discussing RAW.
I've seen no rules that talk about things coinciding or happening simultaneously, or that you can choose the order that individual elements are resolved (outside of the order that you play them, per my example). Can you just quote the specific PHB text that you're talking about? If it's as clear as you suggest, then you should be able to just list the specific rule that talks about simultaneous events or actions/bonus actions and deciding which order to resolve them in.
True.