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D&D 5E PHB Errata Nerf Unarmed Strikes!? WHY??? :(

Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
I had no idea this existed, but I just came across it today as well. Fun read through! Might help you out with some ideas @dnd4vr !

 

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Yaarel

He-Mage
To a degree.

I mean at higher levels you start to get wonky abilities for a "brawler" like Tongue of the Sun and Moon, and Empty Body. Most others are hand waveable though. Some are borderline for me, why does my brawler have Evasion? Why do they have such increased speed?

But yeah, for the most part, Monk is the easiest way to go to do it without 3rd party stuff.

The 5e Monk class would be so much more useful if its base class stripped down to the bare essentials, focusing on nonmagical unarmed combat, and the rest of the features relocating to more specialized subclasses.
 

Yaarel

He-Mage
No, I am going against the errata. I want the original rule back and think it is simpler and works better for brawler builds.

I agree with the statements DnD4vr has been making in this thread.

Both for straightforward meaning of rules, and for the plain logic that things like fangs and claws are weapons, and people trained in unarmed combat are often considered ‘weapons’.



The convoluted ‘errata’ makes less sense.

Magically enhancing unarmed attacks, such as with fiery fists, is a valid fantasy trope. It can and should exist in D&D for players who find such options appealing.
 
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Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
Magically enhancing unarmed attacks, such as with fiery fists, is a valid fantasy trope. It can and should exist in D&D for players who find such options appealing.

The convoluted ‘errata’ seems unrelated to gaming balance, since Flurry would deal the same or more damage by magically enhancing the weapons rather than the bodyparts.

I don't think it makes less sense personally.

Hands aren't weapons, even if people trained in unarmed combat are considered weapon by the modern legal system. I just watched a Variety Youtube with Olivia Munn and Jackie Chan where they responded to Twitter questions. one question was about dealing with knife attacks while you are unarmed. Jackie gave a realistic answer on how to best handle them, but his realistic advice was to scream and run from someone if they have a knife and you don't.

Fun video that I'd recommend just because Jackie Chan is great!

There are also ways to magically enhance your first to be fiery... in the Monk class.

  • Way of the Four Element's Fangs of the Fire Snake. 1 ki = fire damage instead of bludgeoning on your attacks for the rest of the turn (so all attacks, bonus action attacks, and reaction attacks), increases your range to 10', and you can spend 1 more ki to deal an extra 1d10 fire damage per hit.
  • Way of the Sun Soul's Radiant Sun Bolt. Make any attack deal radiant damage that uses your monk martial arts die + Dexterity for attack and damage, and has a range of 30'. Spend 1 ki to do two more attacks like that with a bonus action (kind of replaces Flurry)
Why does "Unarmed Strike" need to appear on the weapons table dealing a flat 1 point of bludgeoning damage and then enhance it with a 3rd level Concentration spell to add 1d4 points of elemental damage to it when you can just be a Monk and do the same thing but with more damage per hit from the unarmed strike & from your monk abilities?

Either of the options above will be able to attack 4 times in a round between action & bonus action dealing 1d6+Str/Dex at range from 5' to 30' + 1d10/ki spent on the Way of Four Element's option. They can do that for 3-5 rounds per battle and get it all back on short rests.

A non-Monk brawler who gets his fists enchanted is going to be maxing at 3 attacks per round if you let them make unarmed strikes as bonus action attacks via Two "Weapon" Fighting. and 1-1d4+Str +1d4 elemental Damage from their friend's concentration spell.

Sorry, there ways to do a brawler build, and there are ways to do all the things people are asking for, even with the Errata.
 

Yaarel

He-Mage
For me, the rules would get less in the way, if unarmed attacks and improvised weapons are treated straightforwardly as ‘weapons’.

Especially ‘natural weapons’ like horns and claws. Humans have (less impressive) natural weapons too.
 

The 5e Monk class would be so much more useful if its base class stripped down to the bare essentials, focusing on nonmagical unarmed combat, and the rest of the features relocating to more specialized subclasses.
Thematically, the Monk is based on the mysticism of the martial arts and other aspects of the orient that were a bit of a craze when it was introduced. Its relation to purely martial, martial arts is probably quite similar to the Paladin's. - They are both warriors that utilise magic to recreate mythological legends and their feats.

I definitely feel that there is conceptual space for a Fighter archetype of an unarmed martial artist. While the Monk was learning to manipulate Ki and contemplating their navel, these brawlers simply trained to beat people up as effectively as possible.

I'd probably grant them only the unarmed strike dice progression and bonus action unarmed attack functions of the Monk's martial arts ability. If they use the bonus action unarmed strike they would lose any shield bonus until their next turn.
Probably also something like dealing Str modifier damage when successfully Shoving or Grappling.
Perhaps AC of Dex + Prof bonus when unarmoured and not using a shield. (Although they would still retain the armour proficiencies of the Fighter.)

Later abilities might include reflexive attacks, shoves or grapples against attackers, resisting grapples or similar mechanics (Perhaps being able to roll both Str(Athletics) and Dex(Acrobatics) rather than having to pick one.) Maybe reducing damage from bludgeoning attacks, and increasing the size limit on grappling creatures?
 

Yaarel

He-Mage
From a design perspective, a base class that focuses on nonmagical unarmed combat can easily integrate various magical and nonmagical subclasses:

• Brawler (nonmagic MMA)
• Monk (magical Wuxia − pronounced sorta like u - yshya)

I would even love to see the 4e Swordmage conceived as an unarmed Arcane melee combatant who fights with closeup magic, auras, and touch attacks. Weapons optional.

A Psionic Shapeshifter making animalistic attacks as well as becoming one animal form partially or fully.

A Psionic brawler reminiscent of some mutant superheroes, including flight, auras, etecetra.

A Psionic reminiscent of Jedi for gishy martial arts and telekinesis.



Fighting by means of ones own body is too fundamental to humanity to restrict it to a specific East Asian monastic warrior tradition.
 

Arnwolf666

Adventurer
The 5e Monk class would be so much more useful if its base class stripped down to the bare essentials, focusing on nonmagical unarmed combat, and the rest of the features relocating to more specialized subclasses.
Some people play the monk because they want the shaolin monk wuxia character. I think quite a few. There martial arts is supposed to beyond that of others.
 


DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
I had no idea this existed, but I just came across it today as well. Fun read through! Might help you out with some ideas @dnd4vr !

Yep. It a great guide. I found it through another thread and bookmarked it. :)
 

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