Pathfinder 2E Gamemastery Guide: What are your thoughts?

[Bravesteel25]

I haven't seen any discussion on whether any of this will be implemented in the Pathbuilder 2 app.

(My players are so dependent on the app it's hard to even give them custom treasure if it can't be entered into the app... )

But it does say something about how absolutely superb and vital this app is for players and gamesmasters alike!

I honestly don't get this part. I find PF2 to be WAY more paper friendly than PF1, and I would say basically on par with 5E from that perspective. Yes, the official sheets looks bad, but once you break it down and realize what you are looking at, it isn't that intimidating or hard to keep up on.

 

[dave2008]

I honestly don't get this part. I find PF2 to be WAY more paper friendly than PF1, and I would say basically on par with 5E from that perspective. Yes, the official sheets looks bad, but once you break it down and realize what you are looking at, it isn't that intimidating or hard to keep up on.

I had the same response in 4e. People often said the only way to make a character in 4e was to use the character builder. No players in my group used the character build, ever. I (DM) used it a couple times to make NPCs, but it definitely was not required.

However, I do get that once you use an app, with all of that functionality, it may be hard to go back.

 

[CapnZapp]

I honestly don't get this part. I find PF2 to be WAY more paper friendly than PF1, and I would say basically on par with 5E from that perspective. Yes, the official sheets looks bad, but once you break it down and realize what you are looking at, it isn't that intimidating or hard to keep up on.

Perhaps you're looking at it the other way...

Whether PF2 is "paper friendly" isn't the issue here. The issue is whether Pathbuilder 2 is so brilliant it makes you prefer using it over paper, friendly or not. And believe you me, it is

PS. If you have actually tried Pathbuilder 2, and went back to paper afterwards, you would have a point of course. So do you?

 

[CapnZapp]

However, I do get that once you use an app, with all of that functionality, it may be hard to go back.

Maybe off topic, Dave, but did you get PB2 running? Maybe you saw Morrus asking about iPhone alternatives? If you got it running maybe you could share your approach over there.

(Of course, that assumes you've had reason to start playing PF2 which was not the case when you last discussed, so feel free to ignore if that isn't the case )

 

[zztong]

However, I do get that once you use an app, with all of that functionality, it may be hard to go back.

I can see this. Both of my regular games (one PF1 and one 5e) are automated. When we were playing PF2, we were automated. Folks in those games are used to it and expect it for systems as large (in rules and sales) as PF1/2 and 5e.

I can also say that these days I'd rather buy a good app than the rulebook. A good app will let me get at the rules I need, in the context of what I'm doing, far better than a lump of paper with an index or a PDF. I got to the point with PF1 that I was only buy Hero Lab Classic data files, not books. For PF2, there was one rulebook for six players. For 5e, there's two rulebooks for six players and everyone has access to the books via D&D Beyond. Buying a paper book just doubles my costs with no gain.

 

[Rhianni32]

The whole point is to put the decision in the hands of the individual gamesmaster.

Do not expect rules that let a player point to a book and demand access to a given feature.

There are two types of rarities though.
Rarity beacuse of theme and setting. kanatas in a western europe style culture. The AP archetypes where there are very few of them around to teach others makes sense. For these I am good with it left to the GM.

But then there are rarities that seem to be based on power level or some other factor. Circle of Protection and Zone of Truth 3rd level divine spells. No real RP flavor reason why these are uncommon. Why are these uncommon while a fireball isnt? These are the types I would have preferred some rules for since the reasoning for them being uncommon seems to be mechanic based in the first place.

 

[pcrotteau]

For PF2, there was one rulebook for six players. For 5e, there's two rulebooks for six players and everyone has access to the books via D&D Beyond. Buying a paper book just doubles my costs with no gain.

I purchased the pdf on day 1 (rulebook a week later) and had a copy printed half sized for table use. The print shop screwed it up, so now I have a hard copy and 2 print copies plus a pdf for the table. Printing is more expensive than purchase, unless you print yourself or booklet sized

 

[CapnZapp]

But then there are rarities that seem to be based on power level or some other factor. Circle of Protection and Zone of Truth 3rd level divine spells. No real RP flavor reason why these are uncommon. Why are these uncommon while a fireball isnt?

I think Zone of Truth is clearly not every GMs cup of tea, and so a clear case can be made for it being uncommon. (Its about spells that can short-circuit investigative scenarios)

Circle of Protection: I don't have a clear opinion, but I would think it safe to assume for a similar reason. Or at least that Paizo considered it valuable to leave its inclusion into the hands of the GM...

...which really is the only criteria that matters for all of these spells.

 

[Bravesteel25]

I had the same response in 4e. People often said the only way to make a character in 4e was to use the character builder. No players in my group used the character build, ever. I (DM) used it a couple times to make NPCs, but it definitely was not required.

However, I do get that once you use an app, with all of that functionality, it may be hard to go back.

Same experience as you regarding 4E. I can understand the ease of use, I just like to remind people that it is completely doable outside of electronic assistance because otherwise it tends to create a narrative that PF2 is overly complex or something.

Perhaps you're looking at it the other way...

Whether PF2 is "paper friendly" isn't the issue here. The issue is whether Pathbuilder 2 is so brilliant it makes you prefer using it over paper, friendly or not. And believe you me, it is

PS. If you have actually tried Pathbuilder 2, and went back to paper afterwards, you would have a point of course. So do you?

I totally get that. I actually work in IT, so I tend to avoid technology in my leisure time (yes even video games), so apps and digital aids aren't a big draw for me beyond professional interest in how they work.

 

[dave2008]

Maybe off topic, Dave, but did you get PB2 running? Maybe you saw Morrus asking about iPhone alternatives? If you got it running maybe you could share your approach over there.

(Of course, that assumes you've had reason to start playing PF2 which was not the case when you last discussed, so feel free to ignore if that isn't the case )

I haven't had a chance to play, so I didn't investigate the app further. I believe there was a workaround I could use on my computer. You sing the praises of the app so much I will likely give it a try on my PC and see how it goes.