Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

[Fenris-77]

Sci-Fi and fantasy share a lot of DNA, and were, at one time, not distinguished as genres, but rather both taken up under the umbrella of romances. That was a long time ago though, and they are currently fairly well defined as separate genres. That said, the common core they share is well reflected in the amount of genre bleed you see, with elements of one crossing over to the other fairly regularly in specific IPs. There's not a whole lot of definitional oomph in trying to define them as entirely different things.

 

[Aldarc]

I'm not overly concerned with role filling, but I want to narrow it down to what people want. So, I'm approaching this from a perspective of what do we already have, and what do we actually need to add.

For example, spell stealing is the unique 17th ability of the Arcane Trickster

So if you were to give that to a Psion, you would need to make sure it was a high level ability and consider how this effects the Arcane Trickster who previously was the only person capable of pulling off this feat.

Well one difference I just now spotted is that the 17th level ability of the Arcane Trickster allows them to steal any spell being cast. But mainly raised the possibility of the psion stealing spells that require Concentration, so that would limit the effective range of spells that a psion could steal.

And, in that same vein, if I make this spell list based on the things you said and some of my own ideas, what do you think is missing from it? I know some of it is duplicated, I'm just grabbing from lists

It's a solid list. Not sure about some, mainly Mold Earth and Shape Water. To start with my own proposal for now, maybe the below for Cantrips:

Spoiler: Spells for Psions

Cantrips:
Encode Thoughts (Enchantment) - Ravnica - almost a no brainer
Friends (Enchantment)
Guidance (Divination)
Light (Evocation) or Dancing Lights (Evocation) - psions had a form of Light that shone out of their eyes
Mage Hand (Conjuration) - basically lesser telekinesis
Message (Transmutation)
Minor Illusion (Illusion)
True Strike (Divination) - basically a lesser precognition
Vicious Mockery (Enchantment)

Mind Sliver (Enchantment) - UA
Psionic Prestidigitation/Theurgy/Druidcraft?

 

[cbwjm]

Well one difference I just now spotted is that the 17th level ability of the Arcane Trickster allows them to steal any spell being cast. But mainly raised the possibility of the psion stealing spells that require Concentration, so that would limit the effective range of spells that a psion could steal.

It's a solid list. Not sure about some, mainly Mold Earth and Shape Water. To start with my own proposal for now, maybe the below for Cantrips:

Spoiler: Spells for Psions

Cantrips:
Encode Thoughts (Enchantment) - Ravnica - almost a no brainer
Friends (Enchantment)
Guidance (Divination)
Light (Evocation) or Dancing Lights (Evocation) - psions had a form of Light that shone out of their eyes
Mage Hand (Conjuration) - basically lesser telekinesis
Message (Transmutation)
Minor Illusion (Illusion)
True Strike (Divination) - basically a lesser precognition
Vicious Mockery (Enchantment)

Mind Sliver (Enchantment) - UA
Psionic Prestidigitation/Theurgy/Druidcraft?

If you want a spell list for psions then look at the UA that had the wizard subclass, it has a list of wizard spells that they suggested as on theme for the psionic tradition. From their, look at other spell lists to add to it.

 

[Aldarc]

If you want a spell list for psions then look at the UA that had the wizard subclass, it has a list of wizard spells that they suggested as on theme for the psionic tradition. From their, look at other spell lists to add to it.

Sure, but this is a hypothetical spell list for a psion class and not just a psionic wizard.

 

[cbwjm]

Sure, but this is a hypothetical spell list for a psion class and not just a psionic wizard.

I know, I'm just suggesting that as a starting point. That UA list is going to have a lot of effects that fit within the theme of psionics already and, much like the various class spell lists already, there is going to be a lot of overlap between the psion spell list and the other spell lists.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Seriously though, if you think Against the Giants isn't THE iconic D&D module, well, I'm not sure what to say. It's ranked as the #1 (well GDQ is) module by Dragon, so, I'm going to say that Against the Giants is probably one of the most iconic D&D adventures. Right up there with Keep on the Borderland. But, @Paul Farquhar, again, this gets back to what experiences people had. Other than the Baldur's Gate games, I never played any D&D computer game. So, again, it falls outside of my experience.

I've never understood the appeal of either Against the Giants or Keep on the Borderlands - I think they are both utterly boring and repetitive. Go into the room, kill (trick/sneak past) the giants (kobolds/goblins/orcs/bugbears/ogres) rinse and repeat ad infinitum. True in 1980, still true in 2020.

If that was all there was to D&D I wouldn't have still being playing by 1981, never mind 40 years later.

 

[Maxperson]

Because 'kitchen sink' systems are wasteful. Instead of focusing on identifying and fixing rules, the designers are looking for yet one more juvenile gimmick to throw in. I restrict my campaign to the Players Handbook, and that's it.

Meanwhile, I keep an eye out for games designed by people who are looking to create quality, rather than quantity. They're out there.

You're also missing the point of kitchen sink systems. The point isn't that you have to have all of what is made. The point is that you get to look at everything and decide what you want to include. I can't remember ever playing in a 3e game that allowed everything. The one I ran certainly didn't.

 

[Maxperson]

Ultimately though, isn't Sci-Fi just another form of fantasy?

No. They are both fictions, but the Fantasy genre is explicitly castles, wizards, dragons, etc. Sci-Fi is called Sci-Fi and not Fantasy for a reason.

 

[Fenris-77]

Given the popularity and overall number of players, 5E probably has the best claim to an actual reason to head for a kitchen sink approach. The more popular a game is the better that approach sounds when it comes to appealing to widest possible audience. I understand the arguments about quantity often coming at the expense of quality, but I would point out that the release schedule for 5E has been a lot more moderate than in previous editions, which mitigates against the argument that quantity is the sole goal of the design studio.

 

[Maxperson]

Quite possibly. But I suspect we all still think, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that we are arguing about the future of D&D.

(Because isn't that one of our core competencies on this forum? Ignoring overwhelming evidence?)

And what better vehicle is there to use in order to predict the future of D&D than psionics!