Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

[Paul Farquhar]

That's why it's science FICTION. The fiction part doesn't make it fantasy or magic. The tech doesn't have to be able to be tied to modern science. It can be imagined advances or new tech that we can imagine might exist.

Psi abilities are solidly sci-fi and have been for a very, very long time.

Psi abilities are magic. They cannot be imagined by any sort of science, they are complete bollocks.

Back in the 60s and 70s when many of these stories originate there where some scientists who thought telepathy and ESP etc might exist. But since then it has been thoroughly and completely debunked.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Psi ability is the sci-fi answer to magic. It's literally NOT magic. It's pure mental ability.

Edit: Sci-fi even goes out of the way to explain it via the brain, different or greater amount of brain chemicals, brain mutations, etc. That's SCIENCE. Hence, Sci-fi.

So "It's something about the brain" is as close as you can get other than an insistence "but it definitely isn't magic."


Have you read the Dresden Files or the Belgariad? They both use a style of magic in them referred to as "The Will and the Word" essentially they construct what they want to happen in their minds, the words being simply devices to focus their intent. In other words, it is pure mental ability.

In fact, the breakdown of sensistive technology around wizards in the Dresden-verse could be because of increased electro-magnetic fields created by brain mutations.

In most stories, there is no difference between Psi Ability and Magic, except that sci-fi felt weird using magic so they gave it a new coat of paint.

 

[Maxperson]

I know this is what you mean, but given our cultural moment I feel the need to be clear that is not SCIENCE (ie. fact and reality based). It most definitely FANTASY SCIENCE.

It is science. Fictional science. Sci-fi. Not fantasy science. Fiction =/= fantasy.

 

[Maxperson]

Psi abilities are magic. They cannot be imagined by any sort of science, they are complete bollocks.

Back in the 60s and 70s when many of these stories originate there where some scientists who thought telepathy and ESP etc might exist. But since then it has been thoroughly and completely debunked.

This is flat out wrong. It can be imagined through different kinds of brain waves, chemical balances, mutations, etc. You know, scientific explanations, not magical ones.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

Definitions of science fiction - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Speculative fiction - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Just gonna say that a lot of people who were a lot smarter than us have had this conversation many times over the years.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It is science. Fictional science. Sci-fi. Not fantasy science. Fiction =/= fantasy.

Missing the point Max.

@dave2008 is referring to our current culture. Where people put forth the "scientific fact" that there is a sun beneath the surface of our planet or the "scientific fact" that mercury gives off gases and electrical signals that make you drunk text your Ex-girlfriend.

Fictional science, Fantasy Science, Bunk Science. The point is it isn't real and it doesn't use Real Science.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

This is flat out wrong. It can be imagined through different kinds of brain waves, chemical balances, mutations, etc. You know, scientific explanations, not magical ones.

I'm a scientist. It can't.

You can "explain" magic as brainwaves and mutations if you like, but it still has nothing whatsoever to do with science, either real or extrapolatable from real.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Definitions of science fiction - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Speculative fiction - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Just gonna say that a lot of people who were a lot smarter than us have had this conversation many times over the years.

Yup, and the only conclusion you can come to is the concept of "genre" is stupid. A story is what it is.

 

[Maxperson]

Have you read the Dresden Files or the Belgariad? They both use a style of magic in them referred to as "The Will and the Word" essentially they construct what they want to happen in their minds, the words being simply devices to focus their intent. In other words, it is pure mental ability.

This is wrong. I have read both and Dresden may have a mental trigger, but it also works through magical means, such as when he brews potions, creates magic items, has to draw magic circles, etc. It's most definitely not psionics.

In fact, the breakdown of sensistive technology around wizards in the Dresden-verse could be because of increased electro-magnetic fields created by brain mutations.

I'm pretty sure that nobody claimed that magic doesn't have any effect on anything that isn't also magical. Of course it can affect tech and other things.

 

[Chaosmancer]

This is flat out wrong. It can be imagined through different kinds of brain waves, chemical balances, mutations, etc. You know, scientific explanations, not magical ones.

Scientific words not explanations.

"I have a chemical in my brain that lets me talk to dead people" is more magical thinking than it is science.

This is wrong. I have read both and Dresden may have a mental trigger, but it also works through magical means, such as when he brews potions, creates magic items, has to draw magic circles, etc. It's most definitely not psionics.

So he isn't altering the chemical composition of those potions with his mind?

Those circles aren't focuses for his internal power?In fact, didn't he have a whole ritual to cleanse his mind before major magics? Doesn't he have the ability to enter other people's mindscapes?

I know the books are fantasy, and they call it magic because that was the authors intent, but it is almost childishly easy to flip it into psionics. Which is the point we are trying to make.

I'm pretty sure that nobody claimed that magic doesn't have any effect on anything that isn't also magical. Of course it can affect tech and other things.

Missing the point.

The point was to give a scientific explanation to magic, you know, like Psi Abilities have. To show that they aren't that different