Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

[Chaosmancer]

I have a hard time divorcing psionics from the sci-fi side of things, likely because it's based on the same root words as give us things like bionics or cryonic or cybernetics. The word itself evokes the idea of science, and particularly of artificially grafted (or possibly, evolved) powers.

Great post, but I think this is exactly what I mean

Psionics evokes the feel of science. It sounds like a science term, because it uses similiar language to science terms.

But, it is still just magic with a science coat of paint. In fact, I doubt you could find Psionics in a purely "Hard Sci-fi" setting, because we don't have the science to explain how it could really work.

You can create hard rules for it, just like you can have a hard magic system, but Psionics itself is not hard science (using literary terms)

 

[Chaosmancer]

If you want to write a sci-fi book like that, go for it. You have no ability to alter the Dresden files to suit your needs, though. Butcher has defined it as magic and set up magical explanations, so it's fantasy, not sci-fi.

MISSING THE POINT.

The point isn't whether Dresden is using magic or is psychic. I know that Butcher made it magic. I read the series, I know that.

The point was to take a magic setting, where magic was clearly the answer, and explain it using psionics. Which I did. And it still works, because the point is that Psionics are indistinguishable from magic, except from the words you use to describe them.

And the best part, you and me? We both agree Dresden Files is Fantasy. I go to my local library? It is in the Science Fiction section. So someone obviously disagrees with both of us.

 

[Maxperson]

The point was to take a magic setting, where magic was clearly the answer, and explain it using psionics. Which I did. And it still works, because the point is that Psionics are indistinguishable from magic, except from the words you use to describe them.

And the fictional science behind Psionics.

And the best part, you and me? We both agree Dresden Files is Fantasy. I go to my local library? It is in the Science Fiction section. So someone obviously disagrees with both of us.

I'll take my and even your ability to categorize things over the government's.

 

[dave2008]

It is science. Fictional science. Sci-fi. Not fantasy science. Fiction =/= fantasy.

No it is not. That was my point. The idea of PSI is complete fantasy. We may give it a fun techno coating in our fiction, but it is fantasy. To equate it with science in these times is problematic. Listen, there is an assault on science in the USA, and though I don't think you are participating in that discussion, I felt the need to be very clear that PSI abilities are fantastic, they are not based in any science. The are sci-fantasy most definitely.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Psionics is a bit of an afterthought in some of the more modern day or near futuristic settings RPGs. But I think Shadowrun has added "Psionics" as a tradition style or whatever of magic for quite awhile along with "Hermetic", "Shamanic" and "Religious".

Mage: the Ascension a game where Advanced Science is in fact Magick, does state that Psionics can be a foci for more Technomancy based mages (and I assume a bunch of non-technomantic Akashic Brotherhood or Cult of Ecstasy members), but has never provided some solid examples from the books I've read.

 

[Chaosmancer]

And the fictional science behind Psionics.

Right, just like the fictional science behind Magic.

 

[dave2008]

LOL Hence Science FICTION. It doesn't need to be said that what we are discussing isn't real world current science. It's a discussion of science fiction and the people here in this thread aren't stupid. They're going to very clearly understand that science fiction isn't real science.

I have worked with a lot of people you think science fiction is a precursor to science-fact. Indeed, there is actually a bit of history of sci-fi predicting future developments. Therefore, I think it bears reinforcing that it is not the case for PSI abilities. They are science fantasy. Now, I understand that this distinction is not really necessary for you or on this forum, but it bears remembering when we interact with the wider world.

 

[dave2008]

You aren't clear on what fiction means? Or is it that you just have a problem putting science and fiction together?

There is a difference between fiction and fantasy (at least in my mind) and PSI is not just science fiction, it is science fantasy. According to the google machine:

Fiction.
"literature in the form of prose, especially short stories and novels, that describes imaginary events and people."

Fantasy.
"the faculty or activity of imagining things, especially things that are impossible or improbable"

Fantasy is a type of fiction the delves into the "...impossible or improbable." That covers both magic and PSI abilities. PSI is science fantasy in application if not genre, IMO.

 

[Aldarc]

Speculative Fiction

 

[dave2008]

Right, just like the fictional science behind Magic.

You make a good point. Magic is also, from a view point, sci-fi. Science =/= technology. Science is: "the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. "

Wizards very much engage in the: "...the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour..." of magic.