D&D General Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity

[FrogReaver]

It’s interesting that you cast this as an issue with sides. I must say it’s a fairly brave position to take considering some of the people standing either side of you. Good luck with that!

I'm going to ignore the bait here too.

 

[FrogReaver]

Agree. Changing the mind of one who has set their mind. Who does not care. Who does not see. Or refuses. Is pointless.

I'm curious... what exactly do you want to change their minds about?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

The other side's perspective:

How does discounting their opinions and essentially calling them anti-inclusion make D&D a more inclusive hobby?

Arguing is anti-inclusive by definition. The fact that there are people who are against this change and that we argue in support of it, doesn't mean that they're anti-inclusive by arguing against them, it just means we disagree.

I haven't called anyone a bigot or racist based on them being for or against this change. My point is, it's happening, nothing can be done about it, not good happens if you stop it, and more good happens if it does happen.

It does not hurt you to have this change. If you think this change doesn't get rid of uninclusiveness in the game, fine. I'm not going to persuade you otherwise. But, I will have to ask you: Why does it hurt for this to happen, and why are you all upset that D&D is more customizable?

 

[Helldritch]

I never said that WotC should fight the ugliness in the world. It is those that search for racism and whatever else in the books that should stand up and fight the "ism" in the world and leave the hobby alone.

As I said, all my experiences with RPG have always been open, inclusive, fair and open minded with others. To me seeing real world "ism" in the books is a such a stretch on reality that it is an insult not only to those who like the games and have always played it with no "ism" present at their tables, but more so to those that really are victims of "ism" in the real world.

It is to these persons that I say:" If you really want to fight the unfairness in the world and the "ism", leave the hobby alone and go in the real world where the fight really is."

 

[TheSword]

Agree. Changing the mind of one who has set their mind. Who does not care. Who does not see. Or refuses. Is pointless.

It’s also exhausting.

... though probably not as exhausting as a POC going to a convention and then if they point out why something in a game affects them having to go 10 rounds in the ring explaining why they should be allowed to feel that way. I was reading last night that the best thing a person can do in that situation if you’re at a table is back the person up without trying to be a savior because all too often the demographics of our game mean that person may be isolated.

 

[Xenonnonex]

I never said that WotC should fight the ugliness in the world. It is those that search for racism and whatever else in the books that should stand up and fight the "ism" in the world and leave the hobby alone.

As I said, all my experiences with RPG have always been open, inclusive, fair and open minded with others. To me seeing real world "ism" in the books is a such a stretch on reality that it is an insult not only to those who like the games and have always played it with no "ism" present at their tables, but more so to those that really are victims of "ism" in the real world.

It is to these persons that I say:" If you really want to fight the unfairness in the world and the "ism", leave the hobby alone and go in the real world where the fight really is."

Why not both. Fight for people in both worlds.

 

[TheSword]

I never said that WotC should fight the ugliness in the world. It is those that search for racism and whatever else in the books that should stand up and fight the "ism" in the world and leave the hobby alone.

As I said, all my experiences with RPG have always been open, inclusive, fair and open minded with others. To me seeing real world "ism" in the books is a such a stretch on reality that it is an insult not only to those who like the games and have always played it with no "ism" present at their tables, but more so to those that really are victims of "ism" in the real world.

It is to these persons that I say:" If you really want to fight the unfairness in the world and the "ism", leave the hobby alone and go in the real world where the fight really is."

The fact that you’ve not seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. There are several accounts available.

 

[TheSword]

I'm going to ignore the bait here too.

It is literally the opposite of bait. I sincerely wish you the best of luck as you find yourself with a minority opinion. It may lend you an interesting perspective on the discussion.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I never said that WotC should fight the ugliness in the world. It is those that search for racism and whatever else in the books that should stand up and fight the "ism" in the world and leave the hobby alone.

First, I don't think that they are searching for racism in the book. Also, what the heck are we supposed to do instead of ask for more changes in the game? I've been to protests to support BLM. I also stay home to avoid spreading the coronavirus. Right now, there's not much we can do besides small victories like this one.

As I said, all my experiences with RPG have always been open, inclusive, fair and open minded with others.

Second, that's your experience. Maybe some people have bad experiences in the game based on this, or something in the game is offensive to them, like the Vistani to the Romani.

To me seeing real world "ism" in the books is a such a stretch on reality that it is an insult not only to those who like the games and have always played it with no "ism" present at their tables, but more so to those that really are victims of "ism" in the real world.

Third, there is no reason to take offense because of someone not wanting to take offense. No one in any circumstance should take offense because someone else is complaining about being offensive or some aspect of the game not being inclusive enough for their taste.

Fourth, it is to these persons that I say:" If you really want to fight the unfairness in the world and the "ism", leave the hobby alone and go in the real world where the fight really is."

Fourth, and it is to you I say, "Stop complaining about people complaining and wanting to change something. Be progressive, and do whatever you're telling us to do as well". It's hypocritical to tell people online to stop telling other people what to do while you're doing the exact same thing.

 

[Libramarian]

@Hussar
How about Jack Chick-style Christians offended by demons & devils in D&D? In your view are we obligated to change the game to appease them as well? If not, why not? Their offense is surely real and intensely felt.