D&D General The Importance of Page 33

[Rdm]

It's nonetheless a preference, and therefore subjective.

By that measure your opinion that they could fit well is just a subjective opinion, as under that standard ‘fit’ and ‘atmosphere’ is entirely subjective and you can’t have a conversation.

 

[Dire Bare]

Mystara may be a kitchen sink, but there's also something of a nostalgia angle here too. Many people who play it want to hearken back to their experiences with the old D&D game and stuff like dragonborn do not have the nostalgia angle. In fact, it might work against it. They might be happy with using the 5e rules for various reasons, but they don't want to use everything either and they're not so hardcore that they want to go back to Classic D&D or its retroclones.


I'm not sure why people can't simply accept that some players just have very different tastes. And forcing a DM to run a game that's not to his taste will result in a bad game. Though I would suspect any long term group generally shares similar tastes and a player going against that is either new or that one guy the group hasn't gotten around to booting yet.

The nostalgia angle I get, I'm not really sure there's any other reason to run a Mystara campaign. I started with Mystara when it was just a map in the Red Box, and grew up with the setting until TSR cancelled the product line. Despite its eccentricity and unevenness, I freaking love the setting.

But I'm not going to force my players into my nostalgia fest. And adding a few new races to the already eclectic mix isn't going to break my nostalgia and love for the setting.

 

[Fanaelialae]

By that measure your opinion that they could fit well is just a subjective opinion, as under that standard ‘fit’ and ‘atmosphere’ is entirely subjective and you can’t have a conversation.

My opinion that a tabaxi would fit well into CoS is indeed subjective.

As for why I didn't respond to your previous assertion that anything that ruins the atmosphere for even one player is objectively bad, I technically already had. I said that it might or might not be a reasonable argument. Which, admittedly, isn't much of a response as it were, but we're already on a tangent to the thread topic and I'm not looking to derail the thread. That's a topic that could be a thread unto itself. I'm pretty sure I've seen that topic a few times, and not everyone agreed with the premise that it is bad, hence my response.

I think I've been pretty consistent. I'm not really clear why you're objecting so strenuously to the idea that tabaxi in Ravenloft are not objectively bad. They could be a bad fit for you and your group, and that's fine. People's preferences vary. That doesn't make it objectively bad though.

 

[Orius]

Exactly, but for some players newer stuff just turns them off completely. Just try having this discussion on Dragonsfoot to see what I mean. I'm not too bothered by adding newer stuff to Mystara myself, I even rationalized some potential approaches. For some people, maybe they didn't see how something could fit, while others simply want nothing to do with it at all.

For me, I do not want dragonborn in my games. I was open to the idea at first when it was announced for 4e, but then WotC got stupid with the dragonboobs, and that soured me completely. Even if they've moved beyond it, it does nothing but call to my mind to pandering to adolescent male sensibilities like the equally stupid chainmail bikini and it gets kicked to the curb.

 

[Coroc]

Huh, it's kinda funny. I played Curse of Strahd with an excellent DM a few years back. My ranger became a were-raven. And was part of a group that welcomed were-ravens.

I'm kinda wondering why a tabaxi or a dragonborn would be out of place in that setting.

But, hey, to each his own.

No one is startled by a raven!

(Unless he has seen to many Hitchcock movies)

 

[Coroc]

.... , but then WotC got stupid with the dragonboobs, .... stupid chainmail bikini and it gets kicked to the curb.

ROFLMAO "Put on your mailbra yo uare annoying the local townsfolk they come with torches and pitchforks, ah darn, it might not have been your dragonboobs at all which got them upset, I think it is more that you look like adangerous predator

 

[Hussar]

No one is startled by a raven!

(Unless he has seen to many Hitchcock movies)

Did I mention the hybrid form where I'm a 5 foot anthropomorphic raven? And the fact that there's an entire group of them in CoS? Never minding the freaking ANGEL hanging out in one of the nearby buildings. (sorry, don't want to spoiler too much) And the fact that the Mists kidnap all sorts of beings from the multiverse all the time, meaning that the folks in Barovia likely have seen all sorts of weird crap walking around.

This is, of course, ignoring the curse on Barovia where the population isn't exactly bog standard human anymore either.

But a walking lizard? Oh, man, that's too far.

Same goes for Mystara - Nostalgia feel? Sure, but, that's going to vary pretty wildly depending on when you played Mystara. One person's totally unbelievable addition is another person's first experience with the setting. I mean, take Diaboli. That's from the Poor Wizard's Almanac, 1992. That's a LONG way into the development of the setting. Yet, extra-dimensional travelers coming to settle in Mystara are perfectly fine, but, Tiefling's aren't? Methinks the Lady doth Protest too much.

 

[FrozenNorth]

So, I started a new campaign. I had a session zero where I explained the idea of an intrigue based campaign, with numerous factions and politicking. None of the players raised any issues with it, but when they arrived at the first session with their characters:

• 1 was a noble distant heir to the throne involved in a plot against the current pretender (Cool!)
• 1 was a doctor who patched up the poor and the wealthy (I can work with that!)
• 1 was a lower-class member of a minority group with the flaw “when people treat me badly I fly into a rage” (Um, not really a great fit for an intrigue-based campaign, but I’m willing to work with this)
• 1 was a wilderness warrior who had never been to the city (C’mon!)
• the last was a steampunk elvish traveller from Sigil who had never been to that plane...

On the one hand, I retooled the campaign to be a more traditional dungeon delve. On the other, I told the steampunk elf to make a more appropriate character or drop the campaign (he dropped the campaign).

To summarize, I don’t think this issue is black or white. DMs should be flexible and avoid being too wedded to their ideas pre-player input. Players should engage with the world as described and not just play characters independent of the world.

 

[clearstream]

I think I've learned a few different things in this thread. Some people are okay with any race in their campaign, others find it disrupts their suspension of disbelief. (The X axis.) Some people prioritise player choice, others prioritise DM choice. (The Y axis.) On that grid, I am top-right.

I don't perceive these as hard binaries: more what one leans toward.

 

[clearstream]

Sure, but doctorbadwolf raises a good point: assuming both you and drbadwolf are both playing in the same campaign, why should your « talking animals are inherently silly » outweigh his « tabaxi are a interesting serious race and I have a cool concept for one ». Presumably, since it is his character, he is more invested in it than you should be.

Say the exchange is exactly that: A is okay with Tabaxi, B is not. And B is DM. How would you resolve that dilemma?