Level Up (A5E) What is the vision of the high level fighter?

[Wishbone]

I wonder why fighter hero in fantasy always find a way to overcome the evil priest or wizard.

Clearly they all took the Mage Slayer feat!

2) Anti magic. Fighters cannot do all the fancy magic tricks, but they are the ultimate answer to them. They can cut through walls of force, reflect fireballs back at the caster, cut through summoned creatures with ease, senses that beat invisibility, they are hard to scry on, and even divination start to have trouble detecting them.

your magical power is the ability to beat magic, which is a solid niche at high levels where magic is everywhere.

I like this a lot. Feels very fitting to have a character so grounded in mundane skill that they can shrug off efforts to change reality around them. A little bit of Terry Pratchett flavoring coming through maybe.

 

[aco175]

I kind of like the idea of high level prestige classes that specialize the fighter, and most of the other classes as well. This may mean we look at the way XP is tracked along with levels. When 5e came out they made a point to make a 'sweet spot' to play longer in the middle levels and I always liked this idea with 5e. We should look at the level where fighters should split to a prestige class whether that is 10th or some other level. Most of my games end around level 12 the highest, so I may not be a good judge of where that level is.

I like the 4e system of some powers for higher level fighters that may on par with higher level spells, like a 1/rest power that allows them to equal the power of a 6-7th level spell.

 

[Minigiant]

Personally I saw high level fighters in these categories

• The Demigod Fighter- A fighter who develops or unlocks raw increases of power, speed, and toughness via divinity or patronage.
• The Reaper Fighter- A fighter who is still a man in armor wielding a weapon. However if he hits you with any weapon, you better be divine or immune or you are dead.
• The Anime Fighter- A fighter who is still a man in armor wielding a weapon. But his attacks resembles magic and his defenses deflect magic.
• The Fighter-Lord- At a certain point his martial skill slows in growth. In it's place, he gains followers that expands his influence and capabilities.
• The Mastermind Fighter- At a certain point his martial skill slows in growth. In it's place, his mind expands.
• The Magic Fighter- Martial skill has a cap. Advancement requires encompassing magic spells onto martial arts.
• The Enchanted Fighter- Martial skill has a cap. The fighter must pay to have his body transformed to break limits.
• The Spiritual Fighter- Straight up, you fighter starts becoming a monk but with armor and weapons.
• The Christmas Tree Fighter- Martial skill has a cap. High level fighters are expected to seek out magic items to bolster their abilities
• The Lucky Fighter- Fighter just get more plot armor.

The easiest ways to display these different styles is via subclasses or prestige classes and epic destinies.

EDIT Forgot 2

 

[Deset Gled]

I am not seeing anyone suggest that we give fighters polymorph.

Rather, from 5 to 20 wizards go from a 7d8 fireball to polymorph ancient dragon.

Fighters go from 2 attacks to 4.

Fighter attacks go from 1d12+4 to 1d12+5. To hit goes from +7 to +11.

There is a lot of room for the fighter to get cool fighter stuff from 11 to 20.

I don't think anyone is arguing that there isn't room for a fighter to improve mathematically. The problem is the narrative; what do those numbers represent?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Or how about we take the players who want their character to shape-shift into a dragon, Sprout fortresses from the ground, create demiplanes, help crops grow, and encourage them to play something other than a fighter? I think making Fighters able to both withstand and dish out incredible punishment IS how they should level. If you want epic magic play a spellcaster

No body is saying give the SAME power to the mundanes. But give them other ''buttons'' to press to influence the fiction around them. Stronghold and mark of prestige are a possibility, but they are a subsystem I think everyone should benefit, not just high level mundane character.

Why not something like Legendary actions/legendary resistance/Lair action/regional effects, like the monsters have, but for the mundane. Its already a mechanic in the game, feels appropriately powerful and mythic and are not forced to be spells or magical effect (though they could be for some sublasses)

 

[FrogReaver]

the problem is that d&d has a player base that finds any powerful abilities that are limited use to be too magical.

if you stop designing for them then a lot more space opens up. Examples...

fighter action ‘kill minions: You may use your remaining movement. Any enemy you move beside dies if it’s Max hp is below 3 times your fighter level.

Fighter action ‘Revenge is mine: you take a defensive position this turn gaining +2 ac. Any enemy that attacks an ally instead of this turn will face your vengeance next turn. You will do 3 times your damage to that enemy.

that highlights some things fighters can accomplish in combat with mundane but resource expending abilities.

out of combat is a bit harder to figure out. I’d suggest a mechanic called renown for them that allows them to ask a few minor favors a day from NPCs and have them granted and a 1 major favor maybe once a week and have a chance of having it granted.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I don't think anyone is arguing that there isn't room for a fighter to improve mathematically. The problem is the narrative; what do those numbers represent?

I think those numbers shows that, like it or not, there's a limit on how well you can smash your weapon in the face of a monster without the use of supernatural effects. So, high level fighter should either all-in supernatural/mystical/wuxia/anime or stop their progression earlier and have spare time over 20 to dabble in a bunch of other stuff.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

fighter action ‘kill minions: You may use your remaining movement. Any enemy you move beside dies if it’s Max hp is below 3 times your fighter level.

Exactly: when you look at the Steel wind strike, you kinda wonder why is it not a fighter talent, maybe 1/per day. Remove the teleport part and make it a non-AoO provoking move and you are all set! But no, its a spell!

Or the equivalent of ''turn undead'' that frightened a group of foes, and automatically destroy low level mook within your move.

out of combat is a bit harder to figure out. I’d suggest a mechanic called renown for them that allows them to ask a few minor favors a day from NPCs and have them granted and a 1 major favor maybe once a week and have a chance of having it granted.

Those kinda of mechanic already exist in the form of spells with the commune X and contact X. The fighter could have a x/day charm-then-ask-3-questions on a non-hostile creature. Or the equivalent of a ''Commune with settlement'' feature for the Rogue!

 

[FrogReaver]

Exactly: when you look at the Steel wind strike, you kinda wonder why is it not a fighter talent, maybe 1/per day. Remove the teleport part and make it a non-AoO provoking move and you are all set! But no, its a spell!

Or the equivalent of ''turn undead'' that frightened a group of foes, and automatically destroy low level mook within your move.



Those kinda of mechanic already exist in the form of spells with the commune X and contact X. The fighter could have a x/day charm-then-ask-3-questions on a non-hostile creature. Or the equivalent of a ''Commune with settlement'' feature for the Rogue!

Solely replicating spell effects and calling the results non-magical is not what I’d have in mind.

 

[TwoSix]

Personally I saw high level fighters in these categories

• The Demigod Fighter- A fighter who develops or unlocks raw increases of power, speed, and toughness via divinity or patronage.
• The Reaper Fighter- A fighter who is still a man in armor wielding a weapon. However if he hits you with any weapon, you better be divine or immune or you are dead.
• The Anime Fighter- A fighter who is still a man in armor wielding a weapon. But his attacks resembles magic and his defenses deflect magic.
• The Fighter-Lord- At a certain point his martial skill slows in growth. In it's place, he gains followers that expands his influence and capabilities.
• The Mastermind Fighter- At a certain point his martial skill slows in growth. In it's place, his mind expands.
• The Magic Fighter- Martial skill has a cap. Advancement requires encompassing magic spells onto martial arts.
• The Enchanted Fighter- Martial skill has a cap. The fighter must pay to have his body transformed to break limits.
• The Spiritual Fighter- Straight up, you fighter starts becoming a monk but with armor and weapons.

The easiest ways to display these different stylesis via subclasses or prestige classes and epic destinies.

This is a really great list. Nice work.