D&D 5E Has D&D Combat Always Been Slow?

Asisreo

Patron Badass
You've never had fun conversations like this?

Player: "I want cast bless on the myself and my 3 friends here, here, and here."
DM: "Ok, that's 4 people, you'll need to spend a 2nd level slot for that."
Player: "Oh, wait....I don't have any more 2nd level slots."
DM: "Well, you can use a 1st level slot, and just bless 3 people."
Player: <thinks for 10 seconds>
Player: "Can I use a 3rd level slot instead? I have those."
DM: "Sure, if you use a 3rd level slot you can bless 5 people."
Player: "5 people, OK." <thinks, looks around at board>
Player: "I'll bless her, the PC over there".
DM: "Well, actually, she's out of range. Needs to be within 30'."
Player: <thinks for 10 more seconds>
Player: "Well, I can't bless everyone, so I guess I'll just bless 3 people for a first level slot."
DM: "Ok, sounds good. Just remember it's concentration if you get hit.
Player: "Oh, it's concentration? That's not good, I have a concentration spell up already. I'm going to do something else..."
Excuse me, I never gave you permission to write out my first 3 campaigns that I DM'd in 5e.

This actually occurs very often for new players, which is why I kinda try to lead them away from multi-option classes like Wizards, Druids, and Clerics so they can get a general grasp on spellcasting first with Warlocks, Paladins, Bards, and Sorcerers.

They're obviously welcome to use them, but every time I get a new player to DM (like haven't played any TTRPG ever), I do my best to avoid putting too many options on their character sheet.
 

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el-remmen

Moderator Emeritus
......to me, though, this is just part of the game.
Yep! Some players are like this and get better over time. Some are like this and just need help from a fellow player or the DM. Some are like this and nothing ever helps (and you just have to decide if you can live with that).

And by "like this" I mean regularly, I think ALL players and even DMs can sometimes be like this b/c game circumstances can be complex.
 

dmhelp

Explorer
I think team based initiative makes things go much quicker (ad&d). You had the magic-user start with fireball or haste. Then the fighters or rangers go mop up what was left.
 

Zsong

Explorer
It depends what your definition of 1e includes.

An AD&D game that used Weapon Speed Factor and Armor/Weapon charts, and the rule that 1 in 6 hits actually strike your head..etc....meant there was an entire 646 layers of rules abyss between you and that lack of HP bloat.

I think this is absolutely true.

Compared to many of the games of the era: Mechwarrior, Star Fleet Tactical Battles,
Car Wars, and Traveller...AD&D was quick...(depending on how many rules your group used).

Traveller had quick combat...TL 15 Homing Plasma Blasts kill fast....it was calculating everything else that took really long amount of time.
I love how people site optional rules that very few to next to nobody ever used as an example of ad&d
 


tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
@iserith made a really good point. You can do a lot to keep combat interesting by narrating things after the player does them then again after calling the next player.

Alice: I attack the elf with....
DM: That's a good hit. Alice you bring that mace around and really smash the heck out of that elf's arm with blood going everywhere
DM: Bob your up, alice just smashed the heck out of point this elf & your pretty sure you heard bones snapping
Bob: I cast firebolt at the same elf!....
DM: Bob that firebolt streaks off and explodes dead centermass on the orc scorching away a big chunk from his armor
DM: Chuck your up, bob just burned a hole in the orc's armor
Chuck: I attack & smite!
DM: Chuck you bring that sword around & at the very last moment of slicing through the gap blown out of in his armor you unleash that smite really ruining his day & you know that because you are pretty sure you see a lung & those are normally best kept unexposed.. oh yea the elf is bloodied
DM: Alice that elf whips out some kinda trinket & smashes it on the ground just behind you causing flames to explode everywhere ... make a dex save..
Alice: it's 3...
DM: wince.. 3 was quite a it less than the xx you needed, that fire rises up around you scorching at the flesh through your armor for yy damage. your up too but standing in a pillar of fire....
Alice I move here and swing at the elf with my mace...

so on & so forth. The narration doesn't need to be carefully thought out & tracked, just graphic & filled with some interesting combination of blood drama & action. Once players realize that it's not something they should be trying to use for advantage by doing things like expecting a lower ac because of the scorched hole in the armor or for the baddie to switch to a 1h weapon just because you described the players being pretty sure they broke the bad guy's arm they won't notice if you described elf#3 getting his knee smashed into an angle it's not supposed to bend three times that fight. The only problem you will have is something I've only seen in 5e.... specifically this:
PC: I get three attacks. For my first attack I roll x... is that a hit?...
gm: That's a hit.. gimme some damage
PC: I deal Y damage... stares at gm
gm: ok *describes some stuff
PC: how is it doing, is he still standing?...
PC: For my seconf attack I roll x... is that a hit?...
gm: That's a hit.. gimme some damage
PC: I deal Y damage... stares at gm
gm: ok *describes some stuff less enthusiastically
PC: how is it doing, is he still standing?...
PC: For my third attack I roll x... is that a hit?...
gm: That's a hit.. gimme some damage
PC: I deal Y damage... stares at gm
gm: ok you hit it for 12
PC: how is it doing, is he still standing?...
GM : yea bob your up alice is spending a lot of time staring at the elf in the fight but he got in some good hits
alice: ok I have three attacks so for my first attack....
GM along with everyone but alice: dies inside
I don't know if it's because 5e changed away from the attack action as a standard action to extra attacks & bonus action offhand, because 5e made the attackroll almost certain & just gave everything a huge sack of hp, because 5e got rid of the penalty on second/third/etc attack to make them more of "maybe I'll get lucky" bonus or whatever... but I never noticed it with such prevalence in 3.5/pf as in 5e. Ultimately I had to houserule that all attack rolls need to be made at once with a target or targets declared before I say how many hit for my own sanity but I still see people trying it every so often
 

Oofta

Legend
I am not gonna replace my friend at the table just because they have a slightly different play style than me that otherwise changes nothing of the gaming experience - esp. if I am happy to do it.
Mr Iserith has me blocked because I challenged him on this; I don't get it and never will. If someone communicates what they're doing I don't care how they do it, goal and approach, "Can I make a stealth check", morris code or semaphores.

Then again, if someone is bad at math I'd work with them to figure out how to get around the issue (quick lookup sheet and average damage is what I've used).

Different DMs, different styles.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
Not in my experience as a GM. Working towards being a little more easy-going and meeting players (esp. new players) where they are at rather than expecting them to be exactly where and how I want them to be has led to much more pleasant interpersonal experiences of play, and let's players' approaches evolve into something cohesive and that the whole group comes to organically.
Sure, I'm happy to work with players to help them improve at playing the game. The role of a player isn't difficult and only requires that they do a couple of things well. But if they are not improving despite my efforts, then I'll just replace them. My experience for the most part is I put forward my table rules which emphasizes certain things and almost nobody has an issue living up to them, new players and veterans both. There is the odd person who just can't and so they aren't invited back.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
Sure, I'm happy to work with players to help them improve at playing the game. The role of a player isn't difficult and only requires that they do a couple of things well. But if they are not improving despite my efforts, then I'll just replace them. My experience for the most part is I put forward my table rules which emphasizes certain things and almost nobody has an issue living up to them, new players and veterans both. There is the odd person who just can't and so they aren't invited back.
Social contract obviously matters a lot here. My groups are first-and-foremost friend groups; we'd simply not roleplay rather than exclude a member.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
Social contract obviously matters a lot here. My groups are first-and-foremost friend groups; we'd simply not roleplay rather than exclude a member.
For my part, I don't even play with my old in-person group of friends anymore. They simply can't produce the same excellent gaming experiences that I can get with my new(er), hand-picked group who otherwise don't meet up outside of D&D games. So with my old D&D group it's board games, card games, and barbeque (pre-pandemic anyway) and that's just fine.
 

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