D&D 5E Dhampir Barbarian

[Seramus]

Path of the Beast can give you a bite attack when you rage:

Spoiler

Bite. Your mouth transforms into a bestial muzzle or great mandibles (your choice). It deals 1d8 piercing damage on a hit. Once on each of your turns when you damage a creature with this bite, you regain a number of hit points equal to your proficiency bonus, provided you have less than half your hit points when you hit.

Dhampir also gives you a bite attack:

Spoiler

Vampiric Bite. Your fanged bite is a natural weapon, which counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. You add your Constitution modifier to the attack and damage rolls when you attack with your bite. Your bite deals 1d4 piercing damage on a hit. While you are missing half or more of your hit points, you have advantage on attack rolls you make with this bite.

When you use your bite and hit a creature that isn’t a Construct or an Undead, you can empower yourself in one of the following ways of your choice:

• regain hit points equal to the damage dealt by the bite
• gain a bonus to the next ability check or attack roll you make; the bonus equals the damage dealt by the bite.

You can empower yourself with your bite a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

How would you rule this interaction?

 

[Umbran]

Fast assessment - for a given attack, you are using one, or the other. They don't stack. You don't get to use the higher damage die from one to use for greater empowerment of the other.

 

[jgsugden]

In most instances, you do not suddenly mix two gained abilities. AC abilities are a key example.

While the precedent is not as clear in a situation like this one, I think the language about your bite transforming in the Path of the Beast barbarian also says you are changing when you gain the bite, so I think that reinforces for this specific instance that you lose the vampire bite and gain a different bite.

However, my RAF answer would be: Combine them. It is more fun. It isn't overpowered. Instead of doing 2d6+8 (or +18 with great weapon master), you do 1d8+8 and regain that 1d8+8 hps. Barbarians are already hearty, so it isn't going to change how often you go down in combat, really. My mountain dwarf barbarian went to zero hps a grand total of once in 18 levels.

 

[Umbran]

However, my RAF answer would be: Combine them. It is more fun. It isn't overpowered. Instead of doing 2d6+8 (or +18 with great weapon master), you do 1d8+8 and regain that 1d8+8 hps.

It is more the "gain 1d8+8 on the next ability check or attack roll" that makes me wonder about issues.

 

[jgsugden]

It is more the "gain 1d8+8 on the next ability check or attack roll" that makes me wonder about issues.

It is only an average of 2 more than they would otherwise be getting, right?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I think I would run it the way the text seems to say:
At base, you have a 1d4 bite attack that you can use your Con bonus for, and with which you get advantage to attack when you are below half health.

When you transform with the bite option, you have a d8+Str+rage bonus bite attack and you regain hit points if you use it when below half health. You do not get to add your Con bonus and you do not get advantage to attack with it when under half health when using this bite.

However you can choose to empower yourself with one of the options when using your PotB bite. Its only a very limited times per day and it is in a separate paragraph to the Dhampir bite details.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

I would just combine the benefits while raging. A barbarian vampire that turns into a vampiric dinosaur while raging is cool. If I were DMing, while the barbarian is raging I would let them use the higher damage and combine the benefits of both bites. Regarding the modifier, I would allow the barbarian to choose if it uses strength or con, but once they make their choice that's what it is from that point on (can't change from con to to strength if they get that ASI or sweet, sweet belt of giant strength)

Also, don't a lot of barbarian abilities require you to use a melee attack modified by strength? I don't think you could attack recklessly or add rage damage to the bite if it is modified by constitution.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Path of the Beast can give you a bite attack when you rage:

Spoiler

Bite. Your mouth transforms into a bestial muzzle or great mandibles (your choice). It deals 1d8 piercing damage on a hit. Once on each of your turns when you damage a creature with this bite, you regain a number of hit points equal to your proficiency bonus, provided you have less than half your hit points when you hit.

Dhampir also gives you a bite attack:

Spoiler

Vampiric Bite. Your fanged bite is a natural weapon, which counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. You add your Constitution modifier to the attack and damage rolls when you attack with your bite. Your bite deals 1d4 piercing damage on a hit. While you are missing half or more of your hit points, you have advantage on attack rolls you make with this bite.

When you use your bite and hit a creature that isn’t a Construct or an Undead, you can empower yourself in one of the following ways of your choice:

• regain hit points equal to the damage dealt by the bite
• gain a bonus to the next ability check or attack roll you make; the bonus equals the damage dealt by the bite.

You can empower yourself with your bite a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

How would you rule this interaction?

Do you want to use you sword or your axe?

They are two separate weapons, they don't stack. Specifically, if the barbarian chooses "bite" when they rage it replaces the Dhampir bite for the duration. If they choose "claws" or "tail" the Dhampir bite is still available and the barbarian can choose which to use when they attack.

It is more the "gain 1d8+8 on the next ability check or attack roll" that makes me wonder about issues.

This. Since the bite has the potential to break (as in utterly annihilate) bounded accuracy it will certainly change from the UA version before it makes it into print, so I wouldn't start planning anything yet.

There are all sorts of ways you can increase the damage, and hence the buff, of the bite well beyond the intended 1d4+CON. And permanent advantage by keeping yourself below half hp is just mad.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

It is more the "gain 1d8+8 on the next ability check or attack roll" that makes me wonder about issues.

This. Since the bite has the potential to break (as in utterly annihilate) bounded accuracy it will certainly change from the UA version before it makes it into print, so I wouldn't start planning anything yet.

Are you guys reading the full ability for the Dhampir's bite? They can only empower themselves like that a number of times per day equal to their proficiency bonus. So at most, 2-6 times per day (depending on level) they get to add that to an attack or ability roll.

 

[NotAYakk]

So starting with a generous interpretation, what do you get?

• You have a Fanged Bite. It is bite and a natural weapon and a simple melee weapon and you are proficient in it.
• You add your Constitution modifier to the attack and damage rolls when you attack with your bite. This is along side your strength bonus, not instead!
• Your bite deals 1d4 piercing damage on a hit.
• You have advantage when you are bloodied with this bite.
• You can empower a bite prof mod times/day.

We then mix in the barbarian

Bite. Your mouth transforms into a bestial muzzle or great mandibles (your choice). It deals 1d8 piercing damage on a hit. Once on each of your turns when you damage a creature with this bite, you regain a number of hit points equal to your proficiency bonus, provided you have less than half your hit points when you hit.

This bite is implicitly an unarmed attack. But it does make your mouth deal 1d8 damage, and your Fanged Bite is also your mouth.

So your Fanged Bite is upgraded to 1d8 damage. And you regain prof bonus HP if you are bloodied and hit with it.

A 16 con 18 strength barbarian at level 5 in rage has a +3+4+3=+10 to hit bite that deals 1d8+9(13.5) x2 (27) damage. If bloodied, this attack has advantage and heals the barbarian 3 HP. 3 times per day they can heal for the full damage of the bite, or get a large bonus to their next attack roll/check.

In comparison, a human PAM/GWM barbarian making a reckless attack with a +1 weapon and 16 strength has a +2 to hit with advantage for 2d10+1d4+48 = 61.5 damage, plus a bonus attack on approach.

The big thing is the crazy accuracy of the bite, because as written the Dhampir gets +con and +str to hit with it.

I suspect Dhampir might be reworded to "constitution instead", which makes this far less strong.