D&D General Treasure - how much, how often, and how does your group divide it

[J.Quondam]

How much do you-as-DM tend to give, either overall or relative to guidelines? Flip side: how much do you-as-player like to get?

I try to stick to the guidelines of the system. I've been burned in the past trying to fit my aesthetic sense to designers' intentions. (* cough* 3.5e/PF1 * cough*) If the system is flexible, then it's just down to whatever's appropriate for the setting.

How much of your treasure is magic items vs non-magic?

Prefer to err on the side of placing less, but more unique, magic. Again, though, this is tied to setting and system.

How do you "place" it in adventures? By this I mean is it sitting there easy to find, is it hidden, is it always guarded, is your expectation that the PCs will find all of it or miss some, etc.

I don't mind a party missing treasure at all: behind secret doors, in monster gullets, other side of illusory projections, disguised as mundane. And I've got no compunction against placing big, bulky treasure (furniture, piles of commodities, murals, etc) that they can't realistically take. But PCs are rarely hindered by "realistically", lol.

How does your group divide treasure and who decides the method used? Also, how often (if ever) does your group divide treasure?

Every group I recall divvied up "the good stuff" basically on the spot, according to whatever makes sense; and the rest was distributed more or less evenly, with the agreement that some fraction was the party fund. So if a character fell into lava, the party fund would melt accordingly.

How easy is it in your game for treasure and-or PC-carried possessions to be destroyed, stolen, or lost? Are your players cool with possession loss and if not, why not?

Personally, I don't mind destroying or losing loot. But ime players generally aren't too keen on that, especially when it comes to favored or especially valuable items. But if you fall in a river full of quippers, yeah, you're probably going to lose a pouch or staff or sword or something. (Of course, the One Ring might find you at some point, too, so there's that.)

Can magic items be bought, sold, or traded; and if not, why not?

Depends on the setting. My personal tastes call for limited opportunities for magic trade (mainly because magic itself is limited). But some settings obviously call for it. And again, IME, players tend to prefer/expect "ye olde magicke shoppe".

 

[Lanefan]

Feel like I'm filling in a questionnaire lol!

Sorry 'bout that - when banging together the OP one question just sort of led to another. :

1) I tend to eyeball treasure rather than follow guidelines in 5E because like, it doesn't really matter that much. 5E doesn't have good rules or even guidelines for spending money (unlike, say Worlds Without Number), doesn't do treasure XP, and by default you can't easily buy/sell magic items (I usually provide some opportunity to do this in a campaign, but it tends to be limited).

In 3E and 4E I tended to carefully follow guidelines because they operated on different principles. 2E I used a lot of tables, but also eyeballed it.

Ditto; I use published 0e-1e modules as a rough guideline as those are closest to what I'm running, and just eyeball it from there.

As a player, interesting treasure matters hugely more than amount of treasure, unless the edition has specific expectations/requirements money-wise (i.e. to buy magic items, level-up training or the like). Only in the latter case do I care. Otherwise I'd much rather have a minor and interesting magic item (even like, really minor) or some cool piece of jewellery than XXXX GP.

I guess as a player I want both. I need money for training, and magic for both usefulness and fun. I rarely if ever give much thought to claiming non-magical jewelry etc.; maybe I should.

2) I love to hand out interesting and niche magic items, often that I've made up, and which are often not directly useful for adventuring, because I love to see how players use them, so I think maybe more of it is magic items than some groups, but perhaps fewer permanent-and-powerful ones (permanent and semi-useless/niche though, plenty!).

Ditto; and sometimes they find some amazing uses for such items in the field that I simply never saw coming.

I also give out lots of useful items, knowing there's going to be turnover as items get destroyed or consumed.

4) Since my wife started playing (early 4E) there is always one player who has "the treasure sheet" which lists all the loot and who is carrying it and so on.

That's almost always my role in any game I play in.

Coin is usually divided up on the spot unless there's an awful lot of it. Never seen them not do an even split, and magic items are typically just handed to the person who can use them most with no regard for value (this has been true across an awful lot of groups), though there can be some "discussion" if someone seems to be getting "too many" magic items (which has lead to a PC who was maybe the second-best person to have one using it).

Cool.

5) The individuals own the treasure after division, unless they're putting money into a pot for something like repairs to an airship or buying a stronghold or a resurrection fund, in which case all will contribute equally to it.

Nice. Right now - no kidding - in the game I play in we're looking for a stronghold in which to hide an airship.....

6) Relatively hard/rare for stuff to be destroyed/lost, as per rules approaches in 4E/5E which suggest this. It's not invulnerable but the rules basically strongly promote the idea that you can't just break people's stuff with rando spells or attacks, nor declare items to have fallen down a hole or whatever without good reason. True stupidity will of course have an impact - like the genius who insisted he was going to carry all the party's potions in his backpack because he was the cleric, and who then fell 30' off a rope he was climbing, and logic dictated he'd land on his back...

7) Can magic items be traded or sold? Yes, it's not like there's a divine edict preventing it, and if you can sell a nuke, you can certainly sell a +3 Shortsword or whatever. However, in practice there tend to be relatively few opportunities to do this in my 5E campaigns. It's much easier to sell or trade than it is to buy a specific item. Items with less practical use or demonstrable powers will be harder to move (meaning you'll need to accept a lower price, or wait for the right buyer). Magic items are pretty high-value for their bulk so are good targets for thieves, so whilst it's unlikely they'll mess with adventurers going about their business, if the adventurers are hanging around trying to sell stuff, they may need to take precautions.

Yep, sounds 'bout right.

 

[Lanefan]

I mean, you say that and I totally believe you feel that way, but I've played with a lot of D&D groups since 1989, and not a single one of them didn't have an approach that was basically identical to what you're describing (i.e. gold splits evenly, magic items go to whoever can use them best, people who don't get as many get left-over stuff they can use, etc.). That said the six weeks w/o splitting is mildly surprising - virtually every group I've played with splits monetary treasure or gems (where practicable) at the soonest possible opportunity - but harder to move items like jewellery, furniture, golden ewers, dragon-hides and so on get held until they can be moved (or indefinitely).

How often it gets split depends on how long the adventure takes to finish. If it's a 10-session adventure - not at all uncommon - then they'll divide all that adventure's loot in session 11 (and probably take all night doing it).

We split evenly by value, so no matter what specific things you end up with your "net earnings" are the same as all the other members of the party...with one common exception: a character only along for part of the adventure only gets part of a share.

 

[Lanefan]

One other thing, we have a "If it is not written down it is lost" table rule.

Same here. They've learned.

So, no asking me to go back into the module notes and try to remember what they found if they can find no record of it.

The bigger headache is when their records and my records don't match, which happens occasionally due to simple human error.

For magical items of consequence (so everything but potions and scrolls), I make up an item card and possession of the card equates possession of the item.

We use an item numbering system. Every item gets a unique number, recorded both in my notes and the players' when first found (hence the occasional error as noted above); which makes it way easier for either to look up if needed.

It also allows the items to be traded easily. So when Bark the Barbarian says "I give Dinkle the Dwarf my magic axe" the player passes a card over and we don't accidentally end up with two magic axes because someone forgot to erase it from their sheet or something.

Good idea. More work than I'd like to do, though. I just make sure to remind people to make the relevant notes on their sheets.

 

[Maxperson]

How much do you-as-DM tend to give, either overall or relative to guidelines? Flip side: how much do you-as-player like to get?

I give less. 5e if you follow the treasure tables drowns you in gold.

How much of your treasure is magic items vs non-magic?

I make magic items a lot rarer, but much better. Rather than 5 minor items that each do something small, I'd rather give one item that has multiple abilities and is going to be treasured. It works really well. My players love the items that they get.

How do you "place" it in adventures? By this I mean is it sitting there easy to find, is it hidden, is it always guarded, is your expectation that the PCs will find all of it or miss some, etc.

I mix it up. Usually it's with creatures. Sometimes it's hidden well. Rarely it will just be sitting there for the taking. I once ran an abandoned temple that had been abandoned for so long that everything was rusting and falling apart. They got to a workshop and on a table was a bright, shiny steel shield+1 just sitting there for the taking. They didn't bother to detect magic and left it there because shields don't sell for much.

How does your group divide treasure and who decides the method used? Also, how often (if ever) does your group divide treasure?

They generally come to a decision about who can best use the item. If nobody wants it, it gets sold and the money divided amongst the group. If more than one want an item, the players will generally roll percentile dice with the winner being the one that the group decides in game will receive the item.

Who owns the treasure before division? After division?

Before the party. After division it's the PC.

How easy is it in your game for treasure and-or PC-carried possessions to be destroyed, stolen, or lost? Are your players cool with possession loss and if not, why not?

It's not often, but they are cool with it when it happens.

Can magic items be bought, sold, or traded; and if not, why not?

Sold certainly. Bought and traded rarely. Magic items are rare and there aren't many around for sale or trade, but it does occasionally happen.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Two or three threads have recently drifted into covering very similar territory around treasure in the game, so I thought starting one just for this topic might make sense.

So, treasure. Lots of questions here just to get things rolling.......

How much do you-as-DM tend to give, either overall or relative to guidelines? Flip side: how much do you-as-player like to get?

I usually try to stick close-ish to the guidelines, but I like to give players 'signature items' that can grow and change with the characters. These often end up counting as several items, so the total number of items is low, but the total power of items is about right.

How much of your treasure is magic items vs non-magic?

I like to ramp up the cash by mid-levels. At that point, wealth becomes more fun and opens opportunities.

How do you "place" it in adventures? By this I mean is it sitting there easy to find, is it hidden, is it always guarded, is your expectation that the PCs will find all of it or miss some, etc.

I usually don't hide much - maybe cash or random items. If the pc's explore the whole dungeon, they'll find all the treasure.

How does your group divide treasure and who decides the method used? Also, how often (if ever) does your group divide treasure?

Varies, but 1) as a dm, this isn't my job nor really my business and 2) as a player, I usually focus on what's best for the team. If an item would be useful to multiple party members, we hash out how best to distribute. The only major variation in treasure-distribution I've seen is whether there's a party fund for resurrections/group purchases or not.

Who owns the treasure before division? After division?

Usually we divide after adventures, so it's essentially party loot before. After it's either that pc's or the group's.

How easy is it in your game for treasure and-or PC-carried possessions to be destroyed, stolen, or lost? Are your players cool with possession loss and if not, why not?

I don't really do that as a dm, because I never really enjoy it as a player. You need to give out a lot of magic items for it to not feel like a big letdown when your magic item goes away. I find that if you have that many magic items they lose all sense of impact. I'd much rather have fewer, more interesting and impactful items, which precludes losing them under normal circumstances.

Can magic items be bought, sold, or traded; and if not, why not?

Technically yes, but I model it after the market for fine art and major antiques. You don't go to a shop or bazaar. You go to a broker who connects with other brokers until he finds a count or someone who can actually afford to buy or trade for something as exceptionally pricey as a magic item. Then the brokers work out a deal (and take a cut.) In a really big city there might be an auction house, but that's effectively the same process just more condensed.

If you're connected to the market, you can also let your broker know you're interested in buying a specific piece.

Potions are an exception, but even the weakest ones are still a major purchase for most people.

There. That ought'a get us going.

 

[tetrasodium]

Your "once they realize the way things are structured" note sounds from here like your players have seen just a bit too much behind the curtain. Are your players also DMs?

Also, 5e only allowing three attuned items does kinda chop down hard on what you-as-DM can do with them, as they're always going to go for only the best - any thoughts of easing that restriction or even removing it entirely so as to allow them to carry things other than just "the best"?

As for the one-time-use item issue, if the risks are that low maybe beef 'em up a little?

Looking back at my 5e campaigns, I almost always have one player who has or does also GM but those individuals tend to be more willing to engage in that kind of stuff than the only ever been a player types. The pure player types might ask for a +1/+2/what about a frostbrand but unlike in the past they lack any kind of gateway drug to start their imaginations tinkering around the edges like 4e's brutal/defensive/high crit/etc* or 3x's crit mod/crit range/asf/acp/slot affinities & meaningful damage types or whatever so they never really get into the mindset of trying to think about anything but ordering something directly out of the catalog as is. The fact that the 5e system mechanics don't really leave any room for that kind of stuff beyond objective +N die size AC number of dice & if its magical or not along with yes/no is it magical doesn't help matters. "the way things are structured" was more in reference to the 5e mechanics themselves.

I've tried forcing body slots with sheets like this to ease the limits but things then mostly come down to 5e's unsupported "optional" feats & magic items being overbudget the second players have one wolverine/deadpool/loons toons levels of durability & lack of any real hooks in the system or ways of inducing churn while leveling so they pretty much became a one or two & done thing.

It doesn't help that with dndbeyond not even supporting wotc's own optional rules it makes any new rules systems or bolt ons come off looking like some ikind of abomintion that sullies the purity of 5e's simplicity for simplicity at all costs purity no matter the rule

* I mostly skipped 4e

 

[TheSword]

If this works for your group, cool. We once tried an item draft system here - by player decision, as with yours - for a few adventures with one party, and it was a foursquare disaster. Never again.

What were the main challenges with it for you? Items not having balanced values?

And that nice weapon has no mechanical advantages in battle? Got it. (though if it's that well made I'd probabl give it a small bonus on any saving throws it had to make)

Sounds like you're approaching 3e's masterwork system only without mechanical benefits. Masterwork as a concept was and still is a good idea.

Yeah. It’s that idea but not advantages. I guess it’s a bit like a skin in a CRPG. A nice collectible or worth more to sell but no intrinsic mechanical benefit.

What about blowing it up, as in the character fails to save and gets the full blast of the Black Dragon's acid breath; do you force item saves at this point (RAW be damned)?

Probably not, unless they were using the item to protect themselves or hide. I kind of rule that cloaks, backpacks etc cover stuff up. I just think it’s unpleasant losing stuff like that. Maybe if I was more generous with replacements it would be ok.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Were you ever forced to give your magic items to another PC? This happens in my group, if an item is "better" for another PC for the group. I've had this happen to me, and I've argue against taking an item from someone else. They treat magic items as a group commodity, regardless of who actually has it, which irks me.

What counts as "your" magic item here though? Like, an item you "felt" was yours "by right" or something, or you were simply the person who picked it up, or do you mean an item that your character had had for ages and been using, but that they took away? It seems like they're taking basically a military approach here, where magic items are the equivalent of weapons/ammo/body armour/grenades and will be redistributed to benefit the squad.

Personally I've never seen what you describe happen with an item that isn't being directly replaced and I don't understand the situation that would cause it to happen, from a logical perspective. Like, if you had a ring of invisibility you'd been using for a while, presumably when you acquired it, other candidates were considered and rejected, given the military distribution approach, why would they then go back on that and redistribute it to someone else?

I've seen military-style distribution of stuff, but the only time things get given away is if someone literally can't use them, like, you've just been distributed/given cloak of uberness and are wearing it, but you also have cloak of okayness, and another party has no cloak magic item at all, if you don't give him that cloak of okayness, it brings into question why you'd received the cloak of uberness - even if it's not seen as military style distribution, they're clearly perceiving part of the bargain for you receiving the item is turning in the old one for redistribution. That's what I have seen happen - if someone takes an item as an upgrade and can no longer use another item at all because it's the same slot and "always on", it's an expectation that the old item be redistributed. And no-one even seems to think twice.

In real life, I wouldn't give out my laptop to someone simply because I'm using my new tablet instead. Even if I wasn't actually using the laptop at all, it's still too valuable to just give away. Most people aren't this generous in real life, and so when my group does this, it breaks the suspension of disblief.

As for giving someone a laptop because you had a better laptop, well, I've seen that happen among friends/family IRL an awful lot of times (it's not automatic but it does happen - particularly with expensive kitchen stuff like high pots/pans, weirdly) and you're saying it doesn't happen, soooooo... (laptop vs tablet isn't the same though, those serve similar but different purposes/roles, but we're talking like for like, like with two cloaks). And in any kind of military or even paramilitary or faux-military squad, if you got given a better gun and there was a dude with no gun, you can sure as hell bet people would expect you to give that dude your old gun - either that or you wouldn't get given the better one - it should go to the guy with none (even if you'd make better use of it), because otherwise you're going to pointlessly hoard the items, weakening the party overall. I also feel like most parties would have pretty intense emotional bonds given the extreme danger and brutal close-combat situations they've been in, so friends/family is probably not a bad comparison point (if anything this is something often overlooked in RPGs). Also this is life-and-death, not just like "Oh I'd like a backup to do watch Netflix on!".

Sorry, not trying to say your PoV is invalid. I don't think it is, but I think there's a fairly straightforward flipside to this, and as soon as you start accepting items because you're "the best person to have them" you're essentially buying into this military redistribution deal, and then it's live by the sword, die by the sword. To avoid this you'd have to never buy into it, and make it really obvious that you didn't, and not even accept given items, always demand an exchange (I'm reminded of a Faction in Planescape, possibly in one of the later books...).

 

[cbwjm]

Not sure how much I give out, so I'm now going through my sessions and having a look. When the game first started, the players were level 3.

• Adventure 1: A planar shard of the shadowfel (attaches to a weapon to give it +1d6 necrotic damage, also makes the weapon magical, bypassing resistance), and chainmail +1 (useless for the party of non-heavy armour wearers so it was later sold), 2 scrolls (bane, lesser restoration).
• Adventure 2: A sentinel shield, 2 scrolls (conjure minor elementals, mind-spike), A platinum book on an ancient dragonborn knightly order (worth 4000gp to the right seller), a doss lute, a dragonfang dagger (dragonborn gain the ability to smite using their breath weapon), A wand of storms (grants access to a cantrip and a spell, both homebrewed), a pearl of power.
• Adventure 3: A chime of opening. Some miscellaneous items that they were able to buy (+1 dagger called spite, I think a +1 shield, a few scrolls/potions), a badge of Tymanther (a symbol showing the great service they did for the city, grants a +1 bonus on saving throws).
• Adventure 4: A ring of speech (cast tongues 3/day). The artificer is also making a couple of scrolls during downtime.

They're now level 6. I already know what the druid in the party is going to get in the coming adventure, not sure about the others. There may be an opportunity for some consumables from one encounter and they'll soon be in the city of Trademoot though I don't think they'll be able to get much there.

Players tend to talk about who should get the items within the group and tend to divide gold evenly.