D&D General Do players even like the risk of death?

[transmission89]

I'm not sure that the general market doesn't want it. As has been pointed out, WotC did a survery for 5e and included the risk of death as a default part of the game. That would indicate that the market wants the risk to be there. They also made it very easy to avoid, so it also indicates that they want that risk to be minimal, but not non-existent. If the majority of the market wanted it to be gone, the death save and instant death mechanics would be optional rules, not defaults.

Except those death saves are explicitly there as a death safeguard.

But again, it’s easy for you to test, don’t even switch to a different system. Increase the lethality of your 5e game (as per the op). Same game, same conditions, just tougher encounters with increased chance of death. Interview your players after a few sessions, what’s their feedback going to be?

 

[Fanaelialae]

Except now we are just playing with semantics and introducing gradation. Indeed, as mentioned above, the answer will always be far more nuanced and muddled, but, for the purposes of a forum discussion, I’d say the answer is no. The question posed was essentially old school was like this, this doesn’t happen any more, are players cool with that.

I could’ve mentioned any OSR system, but again chose DCC for the reasons outlined.

If the OP's question had been whether players generally want an old school level of risk of death, then I'd agree with you. 9 < 10.

However, that's not how I read the question. It's simply asking whether players want the risk of death. Meaning greater than or equal to 1. I think the vast majority of players fall into that category (though certainly not all).

 

[FrogReaver]

Except now we are just playing with semantics and introducing gradation. Indeed, as mentioned above, the answer will always be far more nuanced and muddled, but, for the purposes of a forum discussion, I’d say the answer is no. The question posed was essentially old school was like this, this doesn’t happen any more, are players cool with that.

I could’ve mentioned any OSR system, but again chose DCC for the reasons outlined.

Is it possible you let personal baggage influence your reading of the OP question?

 

[transmission89]

The OP offered up the additional question once people said that the risk of death was wanted. He then expanded it to include types of risk.

The OP, though, only asked if the risk should be there, which the bloodbath question you pose doesn't answer. Nor does your bloodbath question answer the follow up question, "What sorts of risk are acceptable?" At best it answers that bloodbath is or is not acceptable, but goes no further. There are many grades of risk, as well as who gets to make the decision(player or DM) that your question doesn't even begin to touch.

Ok well, risks acceptable? Any and all as befit the scenario encountered. Boom done!

 

[transmission89]

Is it possible you let personal baggage influence your reading of the OP question?

Not at all. I have none. Of course, my perspective is informed by my experience as is everyone’s. The usual subjective caveat applies.

 

[transmission89]

If the OP's question had been whether players generally want an old school level of risk of death, then I'd agree with you. 9 < 10.

However, that's not how I read the question. It's simply asking whether players want the risk of death. Meaning greater than or equal to 1. I think the vast majority of players fall into that category (though certainly not all).

Saying they want it vs actually experiencing it? Oo I dunno, I’ve witnessed a fair few tantrums/tears at my flg. Of course, this is anecdotal, but I suspect happens frequently enough, of course not everyone. I’ve seen a brave few stoic individuals, shed a tear, salute then roll dice.

 

[FrogReaver]

Not at all. I have none. Of course, my perspective is informed by my experience as is everyone’s. The usual subjective caveat applies.

I’m glad you thought about it.

From my perspective it seems a lot more like you are trying to squeeze every fact into your already existing views. IMO. Your view is already decided that people don’t like old school play because they don’t like death. And I don’t say this to down you because I dig in to my views as well until thoroughly discredited. So I want to ask what would it take to change your mind?

 

[Maxperson]

Except those death saves are explicitly there as a death safeguard.

No, not really. They're simply an alternate way of death at -10 with rolls to stop bleeding(i.e. 3e version). You have time to possibly die or possible get saved. They simplified it with the 3 rolls in the 5e fashion.

But again, it’s easy for you to test, don’t even switch to a different system. Increase the lethality of your 5e game (as per the op). Same game, same conditions, just tougher encounters with increased chance of death. Interview your players after a few sessions, what’s their feedback going to be?

Depends on the players. Some people here have done just that, because they want more lethality in their games. It still doesn't change the fact that the risk of death is acceptable to most, maybe even the vast majority who play the game.

 

[FrogReaver]

Saying they want it vs actually experiencing it? Oo I dunno, I’ve witnessed a fair few tantrums/tears at my flg. Of course, this is anecdotal, but I suspect happens frequently enough, of course not everyone. I’ve seen a brave few stoic individuals, shed a tear, salute then roll dice.

So the question is always why did they do that. Was it simply because they died. Was it because their death was a ‘gotcha’. Was it because they felt unfairly targeted. Was it because they felt the encounter or other fictional circumstances leading to their death was unfair? I don’t think either of us really know - but it seems pretty far fetched to conclude that it must have been simply because they died. I mean how many other times have they died and not reacted that way? Was it a particularly loved character by them and they were upset not at the death occurring but at the loss of losing something they loved and simply needed a bit to cope and then roll up their next PC.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Saying they want it vs actually experiencing it? Oo I dunno, I’ve witnessed a fair few tantrums/tears at my flg. Of course, this is anecdotal, but I suspect happens frequently enough, of course not everyone. I’ve seen a brave few stoic individuals, shed a tear, salute then roll dice.

I've seen plenty of players over the years at tables I've gamed at who, while not necessarily thrilled that their character died, were fine with it.

Just because someone is unhappy when their character dies, doesn't mean that they don't want a real possibility of it happening. People can grow attached to characters, and some grief is perfectly natural. Of course, it's on them to express that grief in a mature manner, but that's more a matter of personal maturity than anything to do with gaming preferences.

To put it another way, I'm quite unhappy every year when I have to do my taxes. That doesn't mean I think taxes should be abolished, or that I should be exempted from being taxed. Would you claim that I only want the illusion of paying taxes?