D&D General Styles of Roleplaying and Characters

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Dannyalcatraz

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Personally (using the original terminology), I started off as purely a zero dimensional player. Over time, I developed the skills to play 3D characters.

Today, my gameplay wanders anywhere along that spectrum, sometimes with the same character; within the same session. And that even goes back into the character’s genesis.
 

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Well, I guess YMMV. I suppose I could take it as a compliment that he thought I would improvise something cool, but the rest of the group took it as "Now we all sit here and watch Matt roleplay until he gets bored...which, knowing Matt, is never...and in the meantime the clock is ticking on our gaming session for the week." (Again, remember that this is junior high, and the year is '81.)

Or it might play out like this...


...so yes, waste of time...
 

Bill Zebub

“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
Or it might play out like this...

I'll confess that I wasn't willing to watch a 14 minute video to get the full impact of your point, especially given the snark apparent in your parting shot:

...so yes, waste of time...

But I will say that I've tried to watch Critical Role and it bores me to tears, so "waste of time" might actually be appropriate.
 

Oofta

Legend
I've recently started a campaign of Spire: The City Must Fall, and there are a couple of bits that (at least partially) address what you're talking about.

The first is less specifically about mechanics, but is very much about a player's conception of their PC, and it occurs during character creation. Each PC gets a pair of Bonds, which are relationships with other characters. One Bond is with an NPC (more on that below) and the other is with another of the PCs. The specifics of the PC Bond are determined by class, but in each case, the Bond allows one player to determine something about another player's character. A couple of examples right from the book:

  • You have a bond with another PC- you know a secret about them. Say who it is, what the secret is, and whether they know you know or not.
  • You have a bond with one of the PCs who you recruited to the cause. Say who, and say what it was that tipped them over the edge.
So this game actually has a part of character creation where other players can decide things about your character's backstory, and they are potentialy significant and formative events. Now, this has no mechanical expression in the game in the sense of numbers and modifiers and the like, but it's certainly an example of a game rule that supports character concept not being solely that of the player of that character.

Where there are some more mechanical bits is in the NPC Bonds. Each PC has an NPC Bond, as well. Some person they know and can rely on. The way this works mechanically is that each NPC Bond has an amount of Stress associated with it. When you ask them to do something for you, the Bond will take some Stress, the amount of which is determined by the significance of what's being asked, with that being up to the GM. It varies from 1 Stress to D3, D6, or D8 at the highest. At the end of a Session, the GM will roll a D10, and if they roll under the Stress total for the Bond, then that NPC will suffer Fallout.

Fallout is some kind of complication with the Bond. Maybe they're tired of helping you out and your next request of them will be more difficult; maybe the fact that they help you has been noticed by others; maybe they've been made by the powers that be and they're at risk of being executed (the PCs are members of an outlawed revolutionary organization); maybe they've betrayed you. The severity of this is determined by the Stress level and what makes sense according to the fiction.

Mechanics for relationships or that relate to a player's sense of who their character is are often described in these discussions as being unnecessary. And they actually may be, depending on the goals of play, and what any given participant may consider fun. But what they do....and what those who enjoy them do find fun about them....is that they create risk. Your character may not always turn out the way you want them to.....it will depend on what you do, and how the game goes. That can be exciting. That can be fun.

If it's not your cup of tea, that's understandable....some people want everything about their characters to be entirely up to them without any risk or input from others, and that's fine. I would say that such play is on average not going to be as character focused as a game which does include such rules, but whether that's a good thing or not is a matter of preference.



Would you say that D&D supports excitement or action because of the combat rules and the risk to character well being in that sphere?
Thanks for the details.

I need rules for combat, I don't want rules for what my PC thinks or feels.

That doesn't make games that do it good or bad, I just have my preferences.
 

Oofta

Legend
If you haven't played systems with these sorts of rules, what's your basis for making judgements about them?


What does story mean here? I mean, the story is a sequence of events with a degree of continuity of characters and setting. Does the story mean that PC X has an affair when the opportunity presents itself, or not? How do you adjudicate temptation if the player is in fact never subjected to it?

Also: why can psionic attacks and the like inflict psychic damage, but a character never takes psychic damage from (say) his/her lover or child dying in front of him/her. Or in AD&D, why do dragons get a bonus when fighting to defend their children, but human parents don't?

There are issues here both of internal consistency in the way the fiction and the rules correlate; and also the sort of stuff @hawkeyefan and @Ovinomancer mentioned, of the PC (and hence the player) being potentially vulnerable.
Sorry but this holier than thou attitude is really tiresome.

I don't need to drive every vehicle in existence to know I don't want to buy a pickup. I don't need to play every game to have a preference.
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
Thanks for the details.

I need rules for combat, I don't want rules for what my PC thinks or feels.

That doesn't make games that do it good or bad, I just have my preferences.

Yeah, it's going to vary per preference. I absolutely get that. I play different games for different reasons, and when I play D&D, it's usually about some kind of story based conflict or series of such, and working toward achieving those goals. If I want to explore character more than express character (I think someone said this earlier in the thread, and I think it's very fitting) then I'll go with another game that actually promotes that kind of play.

Neither is better or worse, although I may enjoy one more than the other....but I enjoy both. Others may prefer one over the other to the point where they only do the one.

I just wanted to offer a take on the kinds of rules being discussed and why folks may enjoy them, and having recently spent a lot of time with the book and started Spire, it was a fresh example in my mind.
 

Oofta

Legend
I'll confess that I wasn't willing to watch a 14 minute video to get the full impact of your point, especially given the snark apparent in your parting shot:



But I will say that I've tried to watch Critical Role and it bores me to tears, so "waste of time" might actually be appropriate.
I can see we why it's not everybody's cup of tea, fortunately D&D works reasonably well for many styles of play.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
Thanks for the details.

I need rules for combat, I don't want rules for what my PC thinks or feels.

That doesn't make games that do it good or bad, I just have my preferences.
Again, you have those rules, they're just "I say." And you fit that into either consensus storytelling approaches or into GM-led and moderated storytelling approaches. Ad hoc rules are still rules at the moment of application.
 

Bill Zebub

“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
I can see we why it's not everybody's cup of tea, fortunately D&D works reasonably well for many styles of play.

Agreed.

Basically this whole dispute (or, really, all the various sub-disputes under this general topic) are resolved with the simple rule of "play with people who share your preferences".

I'm all for evangelizing one's favoured playstyle, and trying to convince people of why it's so awesome. I like hearing about approaches that I hadn't considered. But too often that slips into badwrongfun arguments.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
Agreed.

Basically this whole dispute (or, really, all the various sub-disputes under this general topic) are resolved with the simple rule of "play with people who share your preferences".

I'm all for evangelizing one's favoured playstyle, and trying to convince people of why it's so awesome. I like hearing about approaches that I hadn't considered. But too often that slips into badwrongfun arguments.
Indeed, and nothing I've been saying should be construed as making it sound like ad hoc or GM says or consensus storytelling are in any was bad play. They are different tools for different goals. Essentially, it's you and your friends making things up together and there's lots of fun ways to do that. I think that there should maybe be a bit more interest and willingness to learn about other ways, if only to know they aren't for you, but you can't always have your druthers.
 

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