D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

and again, If multi people tell you they have read all that legalize word play and STILL think that it supportst he other way of reading it.
Some people continue to argue that their First Amendment rights are being violated when a corporation won’t let them use their publishing platform. That’s not “another valid interpretation” of the First Amendment. That’s just wrong.

And yet people continue to misinterpret it.

Dogged persistence in believing something false does not eventually make the thing true.
 
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From my perspective, it's not actually correct. Although yes, the dice roll does not in itself describe the quality of the result (it's binary, you either succeed or fail, there is no notion of the quality of the result obtained), the problem with your interpretation is that it assumes that the outcome was precisely described at the start of the action, which is actually not necessarily the case.
The "outcome was precisely described at the start of the action" by whom? The player? The player should be indicating some idea of the goal the PC is trying to accomplish. But it's the DM who decides what actual outcomes are possible when the dice fall, though. I'm clarifying as, while I am not sure we disagree here, I am having trouble understanding what you mean or are implying here.

Since the actual results of success of failure are (usually) not pre-determined with any precision, It is therefore totally supported by the rules to say that the actual outcome of the ability check and its description are in any case totally determined by the DM, who is therefore absolutely free to take into account the result of the dice roll to indicate the quality of the result.
Ok, I see now. This answers what I was getting at above. A DM can take into account the result of the dice to describe quality. I've argued previously that this way leads to the possibility of low rolls being described as the PC engaged in some kind of slapstick routine (not a style I want to play - but hey, if that's fun for a table, go for it) and high rolls being described as... well... "You unlocked the crap out of that door!" or similar. Those are optional flourishes, in other words.

In our game, I typically will clearly lay out the stakes of ability checks so the players know what is on the line. They then know the success/fail states and the DC, and so can make an informed decision, as a capable adventurer, to continue with the action or not. I typically do not overlay the success or failure with flourishes for exceptionally high or low ability check rolls, though. If I ever do, it usually is to give the player an opportunity to contribute some narrative as to what something (like an acrobatic move) done really well (or really poorly) looked like.

It's easy to see from the description of success and failure at an ability chech:
  • Success: "If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check is a success — the creature overcomes the challenge at hand." But as nothing here indicates how the challenge is overcome and by how much, the DM is absolutely supported to describe that success any way he chooses, including with a quality of result if he so chooses.
I wouldn't choose the words "absolutely supported" in conjunction with a lack of rules. But I catch your meaning.

  • Failure: "Otherwise, it's a failure, which means the character or monster makes no progress toward the objective or makes progress combined with a setback determined by the DM." Here it's even more obvious, you can even have a success through (partial) progress, but the DM can set any setback or consequence he chooses, including one based on the quality of the result.
"Quality of the result" strikes me as potentially arbitrary in the moment depending on how one runs the game. I see many DMs asking for rolls without providing stakes or DCs and we're left to wonder what any given result will mean after the dice have settled. I personally prefer a style where the DC is announced so the players know if they've succeed or failed in the moment. The anticipation is in how the dice fall rather than in how the DM "reads" them.

Another angle: if you want to reflect "quality of the result" in play, set multiple DCs ahead of time. I've seen this done in some published adventures where failure by 5 or more has a greater penalty, for example.

So while the rules indicate a binary result, because that result can be described in any term the DM chooses, he is supported in doing exactly that. The rules do not set a degree, but again the game is incredibly open and actually tell that the DM chooses the degree himself according to any criterion he chooses.
I can agree with this as a rulings not rules type of approach. Again, if outcome flourishes described by the dice are fun for the DM and table, use 'em.
 

“The poster” has said clearly and repeatedly that all ways of playing are valid, and there is no bad way to play.
but only one reading of the rules is correct...there is not interpretations only yes/no right/wrong...
The only thing they are claiming is that the rules as written clearly say certain things.
and we show that they are up to interpretations, even using his logic reassigning, but he argues there is no uncertainty even when the DM rules there is...
But they have acknowledged, again clearly and repeatedly, that everybody should play in the way they enjoy.
even if it's wrong right...
You are, of course, free to express opinions about the game. But your willful mis-reading of other posters is not ok.
I am no more misrepresenting his "one true reading" then I am misrepresenting people need air to live.
 

the fact that in this very thread multi posters have shown over and over agian how they read it like I do. I don't even claim to be the majority, just that it is not clear it is up to interpreting the rules (and WotC wrote it that way)

Other posters arrive at the same playstyle as you (partly because it is a very popular and traditional style from previous editions) but I have not seen anybody get there by the same path.
 

but only one reading of the rules is correct...there is not interpretations only yes/no right/wrong...

and we show that they are up to interpretations, even using his logic reassigning, but he argues there is no uncertainty even when the DM rules there is...

even if it's wrong right...

I am no more misrepresenting his "one true reading" then I am misrepresenting people need air to live.
Wrong can mean both incorrect and bad. You are conflating the two things.
 

I understand that, but you are not correct. There are some clearly written rules where people can be right or wrong with interpretations.
if it was clearly written, and then explained for 100pages you would have proven something... but it is obvuisly not clear.
Yes. An Appeal to Popularity. Others doing it is not evidence of you being correct.
no because that would requirement be that A) we have some way to poll all the readers (we don't) and B) me to claim that I know the one true reading... I didn't
 

The latter leaves you the opportunity to decide that your character doesn’t think he’s lying. This might be relevant if, for example, you’re roleplaying a character who’s flaw is that they’re very gullible. Or, is being deceived not one of the traits that it’s boring to play with people who never choose to do?
One tells the player in absolute terms what his PC is thinking and the other doesn't.
But iserith said we should always trust the DM! Either the DM is telling us the truth, that the PC has determined that these actions taken by the NPC indicate that the NPC is lying, and therefore he's lying, or the DM is trying to make us doubt our PC's senses. In which case, there's absolutely no difference between that and the PC rolling under the NPC's deception score and me saying "he seems to be telling the truth."

Plus, since when has the DM said "you think he's telling the truth" and the player has been forced to accept that? As I said before, every player--or at least every player I have ever played with--treats this as the same as the statement "you find no traps." We all know that the phrase means that there could be no traps (or lies), or it could mean that we simply didn't find any traps (or lies). Maybe some crappy DMs have forced the players to act like no, there aren't any traps (or lies), but decent DMs don't.
 

Some people continue to argue that their First Amendment rights are being violated when a corporation won’t let them use their publishing platform. That’s not “another valid interpretation” of the First Amendment. That’s just wrong.

And yet people continue to misinterpret it.

Dogged persistence in believing something false does not eventually make the thing true.
and yet you have shown no evidence we are wrong, especially when you guys keep pushing and nothing has changed in 100 pages.
 

Other posters arrive at the same playstyle as you (partly because it is a very popular and traditional style from previous editions) but I have not seen anybody get there by the same path.
okay, so we all read it and interpret it... and since it is a game and not a law and since the writers have said (many times) that they write in plain languages not legalize
 


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