D&D 5E Roleplaying in D&D 5E: It’s How You Play the Game

[Bill Zebub]

Ask questions... lots of questions (and check my character sheet).

Are there windows? Is there a chimney? Do I have a sleep spell? Do I have silence and can it cover the sound of knock? What are the walls made out of? Is there a sewer system in the area?

When I DM, I will often respond to these questions in the affirmative, even if I wasn’t imagining it the way they are. I believe in letting the players contribute to the fiction, and I both want to see what they are planning, and reward them for engaging.

TL;DR: magic pixels

 

[Maxperson]

One of the issues I have with these conversations is that we can never seem to just discuss specifics. We go from "how does describing how you climb a wall mean automatic success where rolling a dice means possible failure" to <poof> there's a rickety latter that can be climbed that was never mentioned previously. It feels like we either talk past each other or the goalposts keep moving.

So how about this scenario:

The PCs need to get into a warehouse. Their informant has told them that there's a back door but it's barred from the inside at night so it can't be opened from the outside without some sort of magic. If it comes up the DM reminds the players that knock can heard up to 300 feet away. If someone can get inside they can open the back door. You'd rather not kill any guards if it can at all be avoided.

Casing the place, the PCs notice several things

• There's a single guard but they're sitting about 10 feet away from the front door, sitting on a barrel slumped against the wall. You can't tell if they're awake or not.
• The streets at night are deserted, there are crates and barrels along with a wagon on the street. You might be able to sneak into the front door without being noticed, you can't tell.
• The warehouse also has a cupola on the roof for ventilation, you could probably get in that way if you can get up to the roof. There is a drain pipe for the eves on the side of the warehouse out of sight from the guard that might support someone but you're not certain. In any case it could be difficult climb up.

How would you handle this scenario?

Are there windows? If so, how many and what are their placement?

 

[Oofta]

Oooh oooh I know...

"I roll Persuasion and convince the guard to let us in.....23 that's a success, right?"

Quite possibly a valid approach depending on whether this is really just a regular guard. Unfortunately if the guard just lets you in, they have no job and the boss has a tendency to make flunkies simply disappear. It's going to cost you a lot for the guard to skip town with his family. He has a really big family ... as he holds out one hand while holding his other on the rope to the alarm bell.

So yes, this is a legitimate approach, one of hundreds.

 

[Oofta]

Are there windows? If so, how many and what are their placement?

This is the equivalent of a pole barn so no windows, just the cupola on the roof for ventilation.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

One of the issues I have with these conversations is that we can never seem to just discuss specifics. We go from "how does describing how you climb a wall mean automatic success where rolling a dice means possible failure" to <poof> there's a rickety latter that can be climbed that was never mentioned previously. It feels like we either talk past each other or the goalposts keep moving.

So how about this scenario:

The PCs need to get into a warehouse. Their informant has told them that there's a back door but it's barred from the inside at night so it can't be opened from the outside without some sort of magic. If it comes up the DM reminds the players that knock can heard up to 300 feet away. If someone can get inside they can open the back door. You'd rather not kill any guards if it can at all be avoided.

Casing the place, the PCs notice several things

• There's a single guard but they're sitting about 10 feet away from the front door, sitting on a barrel slumped against the wall. You can't tell if they're awake or not.
• The streets at night are deserted, there are crates and barrels along with a wagon on the street. You might be able to sneak into the front door without being noticed, you can't tell.
• The warehouse also has a cupola on the roof for ventilation, you could probably get in that way if you can get up to the roof. There is a drain pipe for the eves on the side of the warehouse out of sight from the guard that might support someone but you're not certain. In any case it could be difficult climb up.

How would you handle this scenario?

Are we handling this scenario as players or DMs?

 

[Oofta]

Are we handling this scenario as players or DMs?

Yes? How would you run it as a DM, what would you prefer as a player.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Check the most recent version of the D&D 4e rules - the Rules Compendium. There it is explicit as to the players asking to make checks the DM encouraged to almost always say "Yes."

OK, but I don't think that really changes anything, does it? I mean, if I say I'm using skill X in 5e, basically the same situation arises and it will get solved in basically the same way. I mean, in either game the GM could say something like "Yes, but..." or "Yes, and..."

 

[iserith]

OK, but I don't think that really changes anything, does it? I mean, if I say I'm using skill X in 5e, basically the same situation arises and it will get solved in basically the same way. I mean, in either game the GM could say something like "Yes, but..." or "Yes, and..."

I think it goes to how players engage with and think about their role in the game and what that looks like in the resulting play experience. It's more than just a different sentence structure.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Yes? How would you run it as a DM, what would you prefer as a player.

Well, it seems we've been through one and a third cycles of the play loop by my estimation.

1st go through:
1. The DM has described the warehouse and reasons had previously been given for something important inside and that no one should kill any guards.
2. The players described how they were casing the place to obtain info about getting in
3. The DM adjudicated (maybe there were rolls, maybe not) - appears to be a success of some sort

2nd go through:
1. The DM describes the warehouse, specifically focusing on the newly revealed details that might help the party gain entry. "What do you do next?" the DM would say to the players.

Now we arrive at:
2. The players decide on a course of action (or split up to try multiple techniques or one thing at a time until success or... disaster!) Do you want to give us some sense of the party composition or should we make that up in order to complete this step? Or do you want to complete this step for us and we can offer how we'd handle the DM adjudication and narration of outcomes?

3. The DM awaits the players to complete step 2...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Letting it ride doesn't make a lot of sense in my view. It makes some sense in a combat situation for a Hide action, particularly as it comes with an action cost, but outside of a time constraint like combat action economy, why not let the player continue retrying in many cases? Or is the player just supposed to play along with that 7 Intelligence (Disguise Kit) result, crooked fake mustache and all? For my part, because I'm not rolling unless there's a meaningful consequence for failure to resolve right now, there's no issue. We'll roll when it's relevant.

Let it ride is simply meant to deal with the 'death by a 1000 cuts' issue. If I am sneaking into the Orc camp, and I need to role another Bluff check every single time I encounter an Orc to see if my disguise holds, then there's a virtually 0% chance it will stand up. Now, you could instead say "Well, it is only relevant when there's a serious challenge to it." That might imply something too, and it leans in the direction of making the GM's opinion about what is important to be a channel for 'guided resolution', AKA force, though honestly I think its hard to consider that to be a very strong objection in a game that seems to actually WANT force, and definitely eschews principles and practices that would really fence it out.