D&D General The Rakshasa and Genie Problem

[Remathilis]

Where has this happened?

Have you ever read the 4e PHB1 or MM1?

 

[bedir than]

Have you ever read the 4e PHB1 or MM1?

Is your assertion that WotC made those mechanics first due to pushback from historically repressed cultures?

If that's not what you are suggesting than your comment is irrelevant

 

[Remathilis]

Is your assertion that WotC made those mechanics first due to pushback from historically repressed cultures?

If that's not what you are suggesting than your comment is irrelevant

Just pointing out what a dry, generic D&D book looks like. Reason for dryness isn't important.

 

[Helldritch]

It really isn't. "Anecdote" is not the singular of "data".

If you want to find out if people of a particular cultural group or demographic has a problem with something, you don't rely on the testimony of a tourist from another cultural group or demographic.

And at which point does an anecdote becomes a possible data?
Some scientists claimed to have seen a fleeting instance of Higg's Boson that failed to be recorded. So far, they can be related to an anecdote. How many instances of this will be considered data?

So far, I have heard of another having the same experience as our friend and if nothing, mine with Amar (or something like that, it's been almost 30 years now) just conclude the same as @Lyxen . And it repeated itself with Kamhel and Adil (not sure of the spelling here...). The anecdotal is starting to repeat itself.

You do not get to dismiss the experience of others for the sake of an argument. If it happened once, could it be that there is more? And if there is more (as in our case) could it be that your premise is flawed somehow? I know that I have learned quite bit with you (you thought me what a dogwhistle was, thanks for that among other things) but this time, I think you jumped a little too fast on your conclusion.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Where has this happened?

Well, complaints about 4e's format at launch notwithstanding, I'm more concerned with what will be left after all the stuff the court of public opinion is complaining about is removed, and what (if anything) it will be replaced with.

 

[bedir than]

Well, complaints about 4e's format at launch notwithstanding, I'm more concerned with what will be left after all the stuff the court of public opinion is complaining about is removed, and what (if anything) it will be replaced with.

But we've seen the incredibly small adjustments in 5e.
The Vistani still exist. They're just not hateful stereotypes.
Even the recent errata adjustments, where they cut the most, only cut about two paragraphs from multi-page entries.

The changes are small and in no way leave only dry mechanics behind

 

[jmartkdr2]

Strange how the anecdotal aspect you criticize happened to one of my friend for the exact same reasons in his travel. The only Indian I knew felt the same (I was at the university back then) and he was surprised that I knew quite a bit about his culture because of D&D and he started to play with me for his last year in Canada. He was studying engineering and he went back to India shortly afterward.

And I got the same reactions from Muslims (Maroc and Tunis). I do think people are actually happy when their culture is incorporated with respect in our game. It helps us understand them better. It might not be perfect, but perfection is not of this world and most people are much more tolerant than what a lot of people actually think.

My overall experience has been: people can tell when you're exploring their culture out of genuine curiosity vs when you're repeating stereotypes without questioning them. It's hard to precisely define the difference, but it's easy to see in person.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I think the OP has a good point. If in a campaign the only place those few cultural elements appear are in association with a particular monster, then it's a stand-in Iand a two-dimensional stand-in at that). The questions at hand are 1) how and when to put those cultural elements into context; and 2) should we divorce those cultural elements from the creatures entirely?

I think there are two possible answers:

1. Include a complete culture, with good and bad parts. Make genies not all evil. Note that if there's only one genie and he only shows up once, this is hard. But if you're worried - include another nonevil genie at some point.

2. Include more inspiration from the base culture. Have some other Arab-inspired things in the setting. Maybe a trader crossing the desert, or some Bedouin, or a Sufi's student on a pilgrimage. Give him a Brooklyn accent and make him helpful.

I don't think "make genies not Arabian-connected" is really an answer, at least not without making them not genies. If genies are recognizably genies, you've borrowed form Arabian myths. The best option is to just not make your cultures shallow.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But we've seen the incredibly small adjustments in 5e.
The Vistani still exist. They're just not hateful stereotypes.
Even the recent errata adjustments, where they cut the most, only cut about two paragraphs from multi-page entries.

The changes are small and in no way leave only dry mechanics behind

Those changes were relatively small. But they're about to release a book that rewrites/replaces two previous books (both of which have already had material removed without replacement), and in a couple years they plan to rewrite the core books as well. I think much bigger changes are in store.

 

[Lyxen]

It really isn't. "Anecdote" is not the singular of "data".

It might be a single point, actually, it's several from multiple encounters in multiple countries (and actually confirmed by at least another poster), so it's still way better than ZERO data, just feelings.

If you want to find out if people of a particular cultural group or demographic has a problem with something, you don't rely on the testimony of a tourist from another cultural group or demographic.

Oh sure, instead it's much better to act as totally unwarranted proxy and pretend they might be offended with absolutely ZERO proof of that ? And potentially shaming others for their use of creatures in published books ? How is that even acceptable ? I thought that "agendas" were forbidden on this site ?

Oh, please, you were just a post ago reveling in being a European, and not having the problems Americans do. You already called out that you have different cultural concerns, so you don't get to disclaim them now.

This is exactly why your posts is discriminating. Because you happen to have specific cultural concerns, everyone needs to buy in them and respect them ? Because I play an "american game", I have to share american concerns and ways of thinking ? Even when they actually concern people who are not american, and who I happen to have fairly close ties with ? So please, stop being discriminating to people who are not american. Is this an American-only site ? Again, do we have to share American concerns to post here ? Is that part of the site's policy ?

Because either it is, and please make it clear, or it's not and if you expect me to share your concerns, I will expect you to share mine.