D&D 5E Let us "fix" Expertise!

[Mort]

In the same sense that no one ever gets dramatically better at skills ever without Expertise.

I say give everyone expertises.

Everyone can get expertise, there's just a cost for everyone but the rogue (well and bard).

If everyone gets expertise, the rogue needs to get something extra to compensate - they're supposed to be better at skills.

 

[Horwath]

In the same sense that no one ever gets dramatically better at skills ever without Expertise.

I say give everyone expertises.

with skill expert, everyone can get it.

 

[Slit518]

What if Rangers had Expertise on Attack rolls vs their favored enemies?

 

[Horwath]

What if Rangers had Expertise on Attack rolls vs their favored enemies?

No.

Last thing rangers need is more "DM charity" abilities.

 

[Monayuris]

What I would do is completely remove the bonuses from Expertise. The Expertise abilty does not increase your bonus on any skill it is applied to. Instead what it does is it adds another 'tier' of capability to the skill. So you now have Unproficient, Proficient, and Expertise as tiers of skill knowledge.

When you are performing an action that may require a use of a skill, the DM can use the tiers when determining how to adjudicate it. Expertise would allow use of a skill in situations where it may otherwise not warrant it or even allow a character to succeed without needing a roll. This gives the DM the ability to take into account the level of skill a character has in determining if a roll is needed and provide a context for increasing depth of capability based on Expertise.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

IMO. +2/+3 is dramatically better

At high levels?

Because by level 5 you’re losing +1, and then it stacks up to missing out on +4, compared to the existing mechanic.

IMO, being the expert sneak should put you far ahead at epic tier, reaching the “you should only ask this character to roll stealth when the DC is Very Hard or higher.”

And while I do think every character should get 1 expertise skill from their class, and Ranger should get 2 at the Bard progression, I think it’s right for the rogue to get 4 ultimately plus reliable talent.

I’d be fine with dropping Reliable talent and giving the rogue a feature that lets them attack as a bonus action, regardless of what action they take in a given turn, or ready an action as a bonus, or something.

Hell, bump SA dice up to a higher die size, there’s plenty of room on the combat side for the rogue, and they get plenty on the skill side.

 

[CleverNickName]

What are some ways to "fix" Expertise?

1. Get rid of it all together?
2. Roll a 1d4 with all Checks that have Expertise?
3. A flat bonus or +2, for example?
4. Advantage on all Checks that have Expertise?
5. Advantage that can be used Once a Short Rest on all Checks that have Expertise per Skill?
6. Advantage that can be used a number of times equal to your Proficiency modifier on all Checks that have Expertise per Skill?
7. Some other idea?

Hmm. Well, if I thought that Expertise was broken, my preferred way to fix it would be with Option #3, a flat +2 bonus. Simple and elegant.

 

[FrogReaver]

At high levels?

Because by level 5 you’re losing +1, and then it stacks up to missing out on +4, compared to the existing mechanic.

IMO, being the expert sneak should put you far ahead at epic tier, reaching the “you should only ask this character to roll stealth when the DC is Very Hard or higher.”

I think some perspective is good. A +14 vs a +17. Grand pronouncements about the effects of the difference between a +14 and a +17 are way overblown.

And while I do think every character should get 1 expertise skill from their class, and Ranger should get 2 at the Bard progression, I think it’s right for the rogue to get 4 ultimately plus reliable talent.

I don't. I find less bonus bloat preferable because it tends to open up more skills checks for more characters than just the specialist.

If I had to segway from a +bonus for expertise, i'd suggest to treat it like mini reliable talent. You can treat rolls of 4 or less as a 5.

 

[Seramus]

The mighty d20 itself is a bigger threat to bounded accuracy. Even a level 20 with +5 attribute and expertise can potentially contribute less than the mighty d20, and the d20 is available at 1st level!

 

[DND_Reborn]

The mighty d20 itself is a bigger threat to bounded accuracy. Even a level 20 with +5 attribute and expertise can potentially contribute less than the mighty d20, and the d20 is available at 1st level!

Yes, and this IMO is one of the biggest issues with d20 systems.

For myself, I feel experience (and ability) should account (potentially) for more than the die that is rolled. But, like many things, I seem to be in the minority on this issue.