A critique and review of the Fighter class

[Oofta]

in any non white room scenero even if the wizard does NOT have any spells at all (no cantrips, no spells per day nothing) if they have the same stat and the same skill prof thee wizard and fighter are equal out of combat... but the wizard will NEVER have NO spells, they will have cantrips and SOMETHING preped.

So how are those going to be useful in, say, a social encounter? Friends lasts a minute and after the spell is over the target knows their mind was affected. That has no consequence in game? Charm person just makes you a friendly acquaintance and gives you advantage. Again, the target knows they were affected.

Some spells are obviously useful now and then. But it's not like they're useful or used in every out of combat encounter.

name a class that has spells (1/2 cast 1/3 cast or full cast) and give them the same secondary stat and skills as the fighter... now tell me who is better.

I have no idea what you're getting at. Fighters have as many proficiency options as everyone but bard and rogue. If the proficiency option for something they want isn't on the list, that's what backgrounds are for. A dex based fighter with street urchin won't be as good as a rogue with expertise at opening locks unless they spend a feat, but they can still be decent at it.

 

[bedir than]

No. We're asking for a single unique fighter ability that connects to either or both of the social and exploration pillar. Not to be on par with the Bard or a Wizard or a Rogue, but to do literally anything that is unique to the Fighter

The sentiment I get is that unless fighter are the optimal choice for something outside of combat, they're worthless.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If only Fighters got more feats as a class feature...

Oh wait.

1 for most of the game as played and 2 over all...

please name the 2 feats that can compeat with 9th level... wait that isn't fair, with 6th level spells for usefulness

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Charm Person isn't super great, but the one that always comes up as a powerful enchantment spell is Suggestion, an 8 hour duration that makes the target just do what you tell them. The request has to "sound reasonable", but the example the spell gives is telling a knight to give her warhorse to the first random begger she meets, so that "reasonable" sounds pretty broad (warhorses are expensive, man).

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So how are those going to be useful in, say, a social encounter? Friends lasts a minute and after the spell is over the target knows their mind was affected. That has no consequence in game? Charm person just makes you a friendly acquaintance and gives you advantage. Again, the target knows they were affected.

Some spells are obviously useful now and then. But it's not like they're useful or used in every out of combat encounter.

yes and those spellss that may or may not be useful are all options the fighter doesn't have... at all

I have no idea what you're getting at. Fighters have as many proficiency options as everyone but bard and rogue. If the proficiency option for something they want isn't on the list, that's what backgrounds are for. A dex based fighter with street urchin won't be as good as a rogue with expertise at opening locks unless they spend a feat, but they can still be decent at it.

again, anyone can be a full caster with 9th level spells AND have the options of the fighter

 

[Vaalingrade]

1 for most of the game as played and 2 over all...

please name the 2 feats that can compeat with 9th level... wait that isn't fair, with 6th level spells for usefulness

Let's not forget that the game pretends that it works perfectly well without feats.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

For the love of Orcus THERE IS NO PROBLEM.

except if that were true then what are we talking about?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Sorry if I'm skipping over most of your post, but if casters are basically on par with fighters, why is this such a big issue? I keep pointing out why I don't think that there's much of a difference. There are very few spells that add a significant amount to social interactions - charm person has significant drawbacks. Familiars and a few spells help with exploration, but at the cost of limited resources. Disguise/alter self can be quite useful but can also be replicated with a hat of disguise or even a simple disguise kit for what it's normally used for.

for me it comes down to 'cool options'

when I or someone in my group plays a warlock we get the same skills/ability check/role play options a fighter does... but we also have 2-4 at will options, 1-4 short rest pulls from a list of 2-11 spells, and at higher level BIG game changing daily abilities... plus every few levels we get mini class feats called invocations.
When I or someone in my group plays a bard we get the same skills/ability check/role play options a fighter does... but we also have 2-4 at will options, and a full pyrmyd of options in the way of full caster, and song of rest, and insperation.


now the fighter gets action surge, second wind, and indomitable... and for the first 10 levels 1 feat. in the next 10 levels they will get 1 more feat and 2 extra attacks over the other two can get (since both bard and warlock but also cleric and others can get 2 attacks)


you just CAN'T get the same options on a martial character.


If I multi Fighter/rogue I can give up the lead on feats and the indomitable and the lead on attacks BUT get the expertise and a few other options... but even still can't keep up with the bard.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Why does it matter if it's only used 1 time per 50 hours of play?

the idea that the full caster only has the right spell for the job once every 10 game sessions (if you play 5 hours we are lucky to get 3 in so even more) is laughable at best.

Why does it have to be unique to their class?

because choosing fighter is choosing not to be a class that DOES have unique abilities...

Why can't a player just contribute by having fun playing a game with friends? Do you feel like you can only have value if you have a spell or the best bonus to a specific skill possible?

no, but I find if over the course of months we all are about the same level of ingenius and rp savy those players that have more options tend to be the ones that get more spotlight.

 

[Oofta]

for me it comes down to 'cool options'

when I or someone in my group plays a warlock we get the same skills/ability check/role play options a fighter does... but we also have 2-4 at will options, 1-4 short rest pulls from a list of 2-11 spells, and at higher level BIG game changing daily abilities... plus every few levels we get mini class feats called invocations.
When I or someone in my group plays a bard we get the same skills/ability check/role play options a fighter does... but we also have 2-4 at will options, and a full pyrmyd of options in the way of full caster, and song of rest, and insperation.


now the fighter gets action surge, second wind, and indomitable... and for the first 10 levels 1 feat. in the next 10 levels they will get 1 more feat and 2 extra attacks over the other two can get (since both bard and warlock but also cleric and others can get 2 attacks)


you just CAN'T get the same options on a martial character.


If I multi Fighter/rogue I can give up the lead on feats and the indomitable and the lead on attacks BUT get the expertise and a few other options... but even still can't keep up with the bard.

Then it's important to you. Nothing wrong with that, I just don't think every class needs to work for every player. I personally will never run a warlock, I don't care for the default themes and the mechanics always felt quite "meh" to me. That doesn't mean I don't recognize that other people enjoy them.

I enjoy playing fighters. Even if in one of my games I appreciate it when the druid casts pass without trace while we explore the jungles of Chult, I don't feel like my PC is any less because I personally couldn't cast the spell. I was just thankful that someone could. On the other hand when we were discussing how to approach the encounter, I was contributing ideas on what to do and how. When it came to execution, I was still part of the group. My only regret with that game is that because we're in the jungle and the game only applies penalty to heavy armor* I didn't make a strength based character. There have been several occasions now where it would have been handy to have someone with a good athletics. I would have used it far more often than I've used my investigation proficiency I opted for from my background.

*This is admittedly a pet peeve. Any armor that does anything at all is going to be hot, why is only heavy armor called out?