DTRPG Says 'Don't criticize us or we'll ban you'

[Nikosandros]

That's interesting because I knew they did POD through DriveThru now as well - meaning they use both retailers as printers. I wonder what the difference in quality is between the two...

I've never used the Amazon option, so I can't comment on its quality.

(Also I could have sworn that Steve Jackson only sold their stuff through Warehouse 23 at one point. I remember running across them on DriveThru and being a bit surprised that they were even there.)

That used to be the case, but at some point they figured they could increase their sales by expanding on other platforms.

 

[Myrdin Potter]

Almost all kickstarters that deliver PDF files to me have been through Drivethru. I always imagined that there is some charge to the IP owners for those discount codes.

Enworld does have a large megaphone - this site. I think a large number of IP owners are much more dependent on DTRPG, but I also figure a lot of them have not seriously tried other ways.

 

[Alzrius]

No True Scotsman.

You’ve been told you’re wrong and you’re attempting to frame the topic in a manner which makes you right.

That's the frame that was being discussed from the beginning though. I've never said that your point isn't valid, just that it's not the one that's being discussed in this conversation.

You’re wrong. There’s no way around that. Just back down, man.

You yourself granted the premise that I was making when you acknowledged that I was referring to what you called a "subset" of the market. The difference is that you think it's meaningless, and I pointed out that it isn't meaningless to the publishers for whom that subset is their entire business model. To which you...posted an emoji.

Again, I want to be absolutely clear: you're right that Kickstarter is by far the larger revenue-generator where digital TTRPG products as a whole are concerned. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that's a different model than the one used by DriveThruRPG, Paizo, OpenGamingStore, and similar venues.

McDonald's and Domino's Pizza are both fast food places. But one is dine-in/carry-out, while the other is delivery. Saying "but they're both fast food, and one is much bigger than the other" is true, but if I'm just talking about delivery, that's not really relevant to what's being discussed.

(Though I suppose there might still be some dine-in Domino's places out there, maybe?)

EDIT: Having said that, I can see that tempers are beginning to flare, and I really do want this to remain a civil discussion. To that end, I'm going to voluntarily withdraw from this thread. I've made my points as clear as I can, and I believe that they have merit, but I don't want to contribute to getting the discussion locked. Hopefully no one comes away from this with any hard feelings, as I believe that different philosophies, opinions, and beliefs are good, as are talking about them publicly.

 

[Nikosandros]

Enworld does have a large megaphone - this site. I think a large number of IP owners are much more dependent on DTRPG

I also have the impression that Drivethru is very important to the many small publishers.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I also have the impression that Drivethru is very important to the many small publishers.

Putting aside the whole monopoly discussion (which I think both sides have laid out their arguments for exhaustively). The big advantage of sites like OBS and other online sales platforms and other POD arrangements, is if you can scrape together enough money to cover the costs of the art, editing, etc; if you spend you budget wisely, you can put out something pretty easily. OBS also has a big advantage in term of giving you access to a large audience. When you first put up a book it is on the first page as a new release for a bit (which I find more helpful than buying banners or doing interviews: but that could be largely due to having a small marketing budget). And OBS is where most gamers seem to get their impression of what is out there and available. Just as an example, I sell print books elsewhere. So all my PDFs that are on Drivethru, can be purchased as print books on other platforms (but not on OBS itself). One of the most common questions I get is when we are going to release our games in print (because they see we have PDFs on OBS and assume if the prints are not also there, they must not exist).

Something like Kickstarted is not anything I can comment on because I haven't used it myself. But it is a very different set up where you need to get enough initial backers (though I think the main advantage is many Publishers find they can generate more money for production value that way: and they basically know how many sales they have).

Both models are clearly good for the hobby. Both allow smaller operations to compete more. They make publishing more accessible in a very niche industry. I think there is a valid question, because they are such important platforms, what 'oughts' there are in terms of what these companies should be avoiding and doing so they aren't abusing that position (but that isn't a legal question as much as a moral one, and we are going to have to accept people arrive at different conclusions about that: as they do in most debates about ethics and morality because you often are trying to balance competing values, competing rights, etc).

 

[Jahydin]

Why do these guys always insist on doing videos shirtless?

I have no idea. It's the reason I hyperlinked instead of just embedding the video though, lol.

 

[Jahydin]

To follow up on Raggi's long and weird video...

It seems he takes issue specifically with:

Neither your Work, description, nor any promotional material, including blog posts or press releases, may contain racist, homophobic, discriminatory, or other repugnant views; overt political agendas or views; depictions or descriptions of criminal violence against children; rape or other acts of criminal perversion; or other obscene material without the express written permission of OneBookShelf.

Mainly the bolded text from what I can tell because what is considered an "overtly political agenda or view" can vary wildly from person to person and also current day politics can serve as important inspiration for artistic works. Also, this probably wont be an issue with left-leaning agendas or views.

The other bolded part he takes issue with because it allows the company to play favorites by handing out "free passes" and muddies what is and what isn't allowed. And how is this suppose to work? Does he call them up every time he writes a sentence he feels might be "edgy"?

As for the rest, he feels what falls under these guidelines will certainly change overtime, and retroactively pulling product to "stay current" is a terrible idea.

He then goes on to explain why the issue is especially personal because growing up the only way marginalized voices were heard was through independent media with independent distribution.

There's a bit more, but I think this covers it. Hope it contributes to the discussion in some way.

 

[Jd Smith1]

As far as I know the only POD that Amazon does is through their Kindle Direct program. Everyone thinks of it as ebooks but they will do paperbacks and hardcovers POD.

(I don't know anyone who has used it for RPGs. I do know some folks who have explored it for self publishing novels, which is how I even know it exists, but I think they went with other options in the end.)

It is wonderful for novels. I've been using their services since 2012.

It would not work well for RPGs, as the formatting options are not really there.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Why would anyone care what you would have to say, if being dismissive of other’s views is your motif?

Venger is an intentionally inflammatory troll with neo-nazi leanings.

Update 41: Rainbow Crystal Utopia · Cha'alt: Chartreuse Shadows

Normally, I might have used Kickstarter to fund my latest Cha'alt adventure. Because I haven't fulfilled all the rewards (I'm stilling waiting on a shipping date, should have more news next week), KS has told me I can't run another crowdfunding campaign on their platform. I probably should have...

www.kickstarter.com

Not private.

Okay? Who said it was?

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Why do these guys always insist on doing videos shirtless?

Aww... I wish you hadn't said this. I had to look. Now I need some sort of eye bleach to get that image out of my head.