D&D General "I make a perception check."

[Demetrios1453]

I'm just very surprised in this discussion with all the DMs that are trying to enforce role-playing on a player in a situation where the player would apparently prefer not to do so. If they want to role-play before a dice roll, fine. If they don't and just want to cut to the chase and roll, fine as well. I've never had a situation, as a player or a DM, in over 30 years of playing this game, where choosing one or the other made a single hair of difference.

 

[CleverNickName]

I'm just very surprised in this discussion with all the DMs that are trying to enforce role-playing on a player in a situation where the player would apparently prefer not to do so. If they want to role-play before a dice roll, fine. If they don't and just want to cut to the chase and roll, fine as well. I've never had a situation, as a player or a DM, in over 30 years of playing this game, where choosing one or the other made a single hair of difference.

This is another reason to have a Session Zero with the players, to discuss everyone's expectations before starting a campaign. Because you're right: some players don't want to roleplay (which is a weird thing to see in a role playing game, but I've seen it.)

The reverse is also true: I'm not entertained by running a fantasy combat simulator for hours at a time, so I insist on roleplaying.

 

[iserith]

I'm just very surprised in this discussion with all the DMs that are trying to enforce role-playing on a player in a situation where the player would apparently prefer not to do so. If they want to role-play before a dice roll, fine. If they don't and just want to cut to the chase and roll, fine as well. I've never had a situation, as a player or a DM, in over 30 years of playing this game, where choosing one or the other made a single hair of difference.

What do you mean by "roleplaying" here? According to the rules, it means the player deciding what the character does, thinks, or says. But often it's used to mean speaking in first person with some kind of theatrical flourish or using flowery words or offensive accents. If you mean the former, then yes, I absolutely expect players to roleplay. That is their role in the game. The latter I don't care about.

As well, I would suggest the "chase" you refer to is not the roll - it's the outcome of the action. There's no guarantee any declared action will have a roll. But it will definitely have an outcome. That outcome is harder for the DM to determine if the player gives them nothing to work with. Glory to the players who hold up their end of the conversation and don't make the DM's responsibilities harder.

 

[Maxperson]

But, per the rules, if I cast Invisibility, I am not hidden. RAW is that I need a stealth roll. So why is hiding in the pantry and being quiet better than invisibility? Especially since it is so easy to find the ways it fails compared to standing still and invisible in the room.

Someone who can see through invisibility won't automatically detect you in the pantry. It's harder to hear you through a closed door than if you are standing out in the open.

 

[Demetrios1453]

What do you mean by "roleplaying" here? According to the rules, it means the player deciding what the character does, thinks, or says. But often it's used to mean speaking in first person with some kind of theatrical flourish or using flowery words or offensive accents. If you mean the former, then yes, I absolutely expect players to roleplay. That is their role in the game. The latter I don't care about.

As well, I would suggest the "chase" you refer to is not the roll - it's the outcome of the action. There's no guarantee any declared action will have a roll. But it will definitely have an outcome. That outcome is harder for the DM to determine if the player gives them nothing to work with. Glory to the players who hold up their end of the conversation and don't make the DM's responsibilities harder.

Believe it or not, some players don't want to do that and just roll the dice. That is their idea of having fun. As a DM, it's not my place to force them to do otherwise when the game can function perfectly fine either way.

 

[iserith]

Believe it or not, some players don't want to do that and just roll the dice. That is their idea of having fun. As a DM, it's not my place to force them to do otherwise when the game can function perfectly fine either way.

To be clear, are you saying that players don't want to decide what their characters think, do, or say? I'm not sure how they're even playing the game if this is the case.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I want to see the things that were hidden when you described the room.

Given that I try my best not to leave out details when describing the environment, there is nothing else to see from the vantage point where you entered the room. What else would you like to do?

But, per the rules, if I cast Invisibility, I am not hidden. RAW is that I need a stealth roll. So why is hiding in the pantry and being quiet better than invisibility? Especially since it is so easy to find the ways it fails compared to standing still and invisible in the room.

"hidden—both unseen and unheard"

If someone says their PC hides in a pantry, closes the door, and stays quiet, I am not going to automatically call for a Dex(Stealth) check when an NPC lumbers into the room. Unless circumstances, such as tight quarters in said pantry, warrant it.

Same with someone who is Invisible in the room who says they are staying quiet before the NPC comes along.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

This is something I've been having to slowly coach my players about, in Dungeon World.

Don't tell me you intend to make a roll. Describe what you're doing. Give me actions, thoughts, feelings. If those actions, thoughts, or feelings necessitate a roll, I'll tell you. Otherwise, I am happy to just give you answers.

It's that last bit that I think has done the most good to encourage people to pause on rolling. Well, that and the fact that a bad Discern Realities roll means the party will learn an unwelcome truth! (I never, ever speak falsely about Discern Realities rolls--I may sometimes give incomplete information, without specifically saying so, if the PC doesn't have any way to observe a particular piece of info, but I don't ever state things that are false.)

Since the players know they can learn a lot just by asking about stuff, they feel like they should ask around, show how they're delving into things, and then when their actions trigger a roll, they can make it at that time.

 

[tetrasodium]

To be clear, are you saying that players don't want to decide what their characters think, do, or say? I'm not sure how they're even playing the game if this is the case.

Indeed. These players are a severe problem at the table. I can't throw any hooks their way & expect them to react or care. I can't create problems they care about. They exist entirely to throw off encounter math with an extra PC & spring from hammerspace pikachu style when a player who does those things suggests they take care of a problem

 

[Demetrios1453]

To be clear, are you saying that players don't want to decide what their characters think, do, or say? I'm not sure how they're even playing the game if this is the case.

They are still deciding which skill check they are rolling for. And they are happy to role-play when dice rolls aren't involved. But when it comes to times when dice rolls are needed, they are at times perfectly content just to let the dice speak for them.