Tell Me About Cortex Prime

Thomas Shey

Legend
Yeah. In the past, the Cortex system itself was useful for mechanics of fairly mundane actions, and SFX covered anything weird. But in Cortex Prime, you can build magic into the fundamentals of stats and play.

Tales of Xadia, a Cortex Prime game all about a magical world, needs all of three pages on how to do magic. Because "doing magic" is mechanically pretty much the same as other ways of doing stuff. Which makes sense, because in that world, about half the planet's population can do magic in some form or other. It has to flow naturally in the system.

There are a lot of ways you can represent paranormal powers in Cortex; the only issues with the simpler ones is if you want that part to be engaging on a game level, it isn't going to do it (I found that out the hard way when I did my somewhat quick-and-dirty port of Lords of Gossamer and Shadow to it; in the end, I'd wished I had made more effort to have the mechanics of the powers be less broad-stroke).
 

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Thomas Shey

Legend
I know, but the point is that it's not a universal issue among toolkits and the issue remains with games like Cortex and Fate. There may be lots of different ways to do magic, but where and how do you start? Especially when the game doesn't have much in terms of concrete examples. (Thankfully there is ToX out now.)

Well, Cortex does have some guidance here (Prime that is) because of the two sections on SFX. You're not having to completely pull it out of thin air.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I know, but the point is that it's not a universal issue among toolkits and the issue remains with games like Cortex and Fate. There may be lots of different ways to do magic, but where and how do you start? Especially when the game doesn't have much in terms of concrete examples. (Thankfully there is ToX out now.)
I think that IS always a universal issues among toolkits, by definition. A toolkit you pick and choose. The games where you have a set magic may be universal systems, but they are not toolkits.

Any toolkit, where you can do multiple types of magic systems has it. Any where there's only one type of magic isn't a toolkit.

Cortex Prime doesn't even have set ability scores, it is much moire a toolbox, unlike something like GURPS.
 
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Aldarc

Legend
I think that IS always a universal issues among toolkits, by definition. A toolkit you pick and choose. The games where you have a set magic may be universal systems, but they are not toolkits.

Any toolkit, where you can do multiple types of magic systems has it. Any where there's only one type of magic isn't a toolkit.

Cortex Prime doesn't even have set ability scores, it is much moire a toolbox, unlike something like GURPS.
This feels a bit like a "No True Toolkit" sort of argument regarding magic systems. I'm not sure if I find it particularly compelling.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
This feels a bit like a "No True Toolkit" sort of argument regarding magic systems. I'm not sure if I find it particularly compelling.
It feels like you are trying to do away with an important part of the definition of toolkit with rhetoric. If I say that No True d20 used in D&D should be missing the number 15, it's still a true statement.

Can you give a counterexample of a toolkit with flexible and interchangable magic systems where you can give a single feel for them? If you don't feel my statement is true, counter it with facts.
 

ruemere

Adventurer
I know, but the point is that it's not a universal issue among toolkits and the issue remains with games like Cortex and Fate. There may be lots of different ways to do magic, but where and how do you start? Especially when the game doesn't have much in terms of concrete examples. (Thankfully there is ToX out now.)

There are three ways that immediately sprang to my mind:

1. Tales of Xadia method:

Dedicate a Distinction in the following way: <adjective>+<magic vocation> (for example, Hot-headed Sun Mage).
Select one specialty (magic type) and assign a rating to it.
Assign a rating to an associated Asset (this allows you to select a number of spells).
When you cast a spell, use a dice pool of Distinction+Specialty+Asset.
The spell description informs you as to the nature of the effect in question, however it can be heavily modified by the result of the roll and other things.

Pretty complicated, but allows you a lot of flexibility, and your nonmagical stats do not overlap with magical ones preventing mages from becoming superior character choice.

2. Powers.

2.1 Pick or create powers in a prime set. Rename those that need to function as spells, and assign additional SFX (special effects) with costs.

Create an Elemental Earth Object spell (Elemental Control: Earth power) would by default create a temporary asset that lasts a scene for a price of 1 PP, with a rating based on your power rating. Adding more power or control or area would require use of an appropriate SFX with additional cost.
NOTE: (loosely paraphrasing the rules) A power must have at least one SFX (SFX is an activation condition and a benefit), and at least one limit (specific condition that shuts down the power, prevents its use or severely weakens it).
Example: Create an Elemental Earth Object spell: While standing barefoot on a ground, stone or any stable mineral, invoke an incantation to conjure a geometrical object composed of dirt or stone within 30 feet.
Benefit: The object immediately moves in accordance with laws of gravity. It is not attached to surface. Double effect dice if rock is selected and the object is falling from 20' or more.
Limit: Step down effect if blocked by solid barriers or liquids.

2.2 Allow to retrain Powers to rewrite them or add another SFX to gain more flexibility for XP.

3. Magic as Skills with Specialties.

3.1 Basically, for a Skill Lightning Magic, you can create specialties like Create a Storm and Call Down a Lightning Strike:

Lightning Magic Skill d8 (Create a Storm d6, Call Down a Lightning Strike d6).
You purchase all of these as three skills, the gain here is that while using Lightning Magic you gain d8 in your pool. But Creating a Storm will grant you d8+d6.
Later you may purchase additional SFX, step up dice or add more dice.
To balance it, add SFX with a Plot Point cost.
 

Aldarc

Legend
It feels like you are trying to do away with an important part of the definition of toolkit with rhetoric.
I was unaware that this was a common definition of a toolkit system. I have never encountered this requirement in past conversations about toolkit systems. It has somehow only surfaced for the first time in this thread. I am not trying to do away with anything "with rhetoric" or doing away with facts. It just comes across as something of an arbitrary marker for what makes or doesn't make for a toolkit system. But if you feel that I am trying to do away with this "with rhetoric," then I think that I will bow out of this conversation before it takes a southern turn.

I like Cortex Prime. I think that it's a good system. But I am not the only person who has raised the issue of how hacking magic is not always easy for this system. I said my piece and now I'm going to peace out.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
There are a lot of ways you can represent paranormal powers in Cortex; the only issues with the simpler ones is if you want that part to be engaging on a game level, it isn't going to do it.

Well, the same can be said for the system as a whole - Nobody ever claimed that Leverage was a game of deep or complex tactical choices.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I was unaware that this was a common definition of a toolkit system.
A toolkit is a collection of tools that you can put together. Especially in a toolkit where you can just as easily do genres that don't have magic, or super powers, or psionics, or The Force, or whatever, the idea that you add various parts together to get what you want is pretty much the defintion of it.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
This feels a bit like a "No True Toolkit" sort of argument regarding magic systems. I'm not sure if I find it particularly compelling.

I think we may be reaching a point in game design when we can consider differentiating between "toolkit" and "generic".

GURPS and Savage Words we might consider "generic" systems.

Cypher System and Cortex Prime (and possibly Fate - that's a conversation) are outright toolkits.

Like, Cortex Prime doesn't even give you a fixed set of attributes/stats to use. "Some assembly required," so to speak.
 

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