D&D General anyone think that vancian magic is limited?

[EzekielRaiden]

i think that magic in fantasy should be able to do anything. anyone agree with me?

I do think Vancian magic is somewhat limited, though not as much as it should be.

I don't think spellcasting should be able to "do anything." It is more interesting when the supernatural is bigger and more diverse than just spellcasting.

 

[tetrasodium]

Beneficial gameplay influences were lost in the shift 5e made away from vancian casting. "Limited" is too vague & undefined. Can you elaborate?

 

[jgsugden]

Vancian magic is terrible. It is a great example of how to make magic "un-magical".

Yes magic should be able to do anything.

Thank all the gods that wizards can't tho.

This is the line.

Magic should feel amazing and wonderful. PCs can't be so amazing until they are at least level 17. So, you need to have lines around your magic to make PC magic playable while preserving a feeling that magic is capable of so much more than PCs, and they're seeking to unlock that full potential.

However, once they get to those highest levels, they should feel like legends. The game does not go far enough to make PCs of those highest levels feel like they are on the edge of Godhood.

 

[Umbran]

i think that magic in fantasy should be able to do anything. anyone agree with me?

Not really. I find that magic that "does anything", without limitations or rules, is narratively uninteresting.

 

[Dausuul]

i think that magic in fantasy should be able to do anything. anyone agree with me?

I absolutely disagree. Magic must have limitations. The things magic can't do are what make it possible to have stories in a magical world that don't begin and end with the wave of a wizard's hand.

 

[Stormonu]

I miss the backlash/danger of using magic. I understand that for a player a spell that can blow up in your face can be a turn-off, but overall I think its a great game balancing factor and narrative trope.

I know DCC has incorporated a sort of magical corruption into its system, and if it didn't use a bunch of non-standard dice, I'd consider using it for D&D (assuming I could get player buy it - which would be the real trick).

 

[Dioltach]

Need to dispose of an evil magic ring? No need to organise a fellowship to trek across a continent to a specific volcano, a wizard could just use magic to destroy the ring, since magic can do anything.

It was the magic of storytelling!

 

[Vaalingrade]

Not in the same way OP is thinking.

I feel that the structure of Vancian Magic sharply limits the style and kind of spellcasters you can have. It works for the story it was made for, but as part of a game, it's just not a very interesting system; just a big pile of homework and unnecessary math and 5-minute workday naps.

That's why it's annoying and distressing that even if it isn't whole anymore, it's still poking its butt into EVERY spellcaster in 5.5e and every other ability-using class in the form of daily uses.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

I absolutely disagree. Magic must have limitations. The things magic can't do are what make it possible to have stories in a magical world that don't begin and end with the wave of a wizard's hand.

 

[LordEntrails]

i think that magic in fantasy should be able to do anything. anyone agree with me?

No. In a fictional book, sure. In a game? No. Any such game would consist of one thing action; magic user casts 'I win'. Game over. No fun.