D&D (2024) What new jargon do you want to replace "Race"?

[Bedrockgames]

I generally agree with you. I also think that most people in this debate seem to consider humans to be 100% free-willed, with no instinctive drive at all, or they take human insctinct as a baseline for any sentient species that one could meet in D&D. So "a drive to do X", where X is a behaviour that would be labelled evil, is dismissed as a lack of free will, despite our own drives (sexual drives, overeating drives, fear...) governing our behaviour more often than we'd like.

And one issue you run into if creatures don't have will, but are tethered to good or evil by design, is their isn't any real moral choice being made, so you can question whether they are truly good or truly evil. You can get around this by having it be the product of a choice made at a very early point in history, like angels and demons making their choice shortly after the moment of creation, but that only works for eternal beings, not for mortal ones.

But I think D&D alignment and moral cosmology is more epic in nature. I usually go to other games when I want more involved, real world or interesting morality (and I only play D&D once in a while these days)

 

[Bill Zebub]

and you aren't doing it in way where it is meant to be some kind of allegory for human racial tensions,

It doesn't matter whether or not it is meant to be an allegory. If it is using the language and imagery of historical subjugation to suggest that it's ok to kill the imaginary people, it's just a dumb idea.

 

[Bedrockgames]

It doesn't matter whether or not it is meant to be an allegory. If it is using the language and imagery of historical subjugation to suggest that it's ok to kill the imaginary people, it's just a dumb idea.

I wasn’t even talking about that, or arguing for it. But I think context, intent, and the specifics always matter. And I think readers can be trusted to make a good faith interpretation

 

[codo]

Thanks for avoiding the question:

Why can't a GOD make a species evil? Why can't magic make a species evil? Why can't curses make a species evil?

I am not avoiding the question. I said evil monsters are ok. You CAN have gods or magic make evil species. (As I said in my previous post Fiends and Undead are EVIL, and I think they are fine. What I have a problem with is claiming that an entire species is EVIL, and is ok to kill on sight, while ALSO allowing them to be PCs.

Pick one or the other the game shouldn't have creatures who are both. Whenever someone ends up trying to justify why a certain species should be killed on sight, except for certain specific individuals, they inevitably end up using the words real world racists used to justify their genocide.

 

[Yaarel]

Either the species is humanlike and playable as a character, with learning, culture, and individuals of any alignment.

Or the species is not-at-all humanlike and obviously unplayable as a character.

 

[Yaarel]

yes

From a traditional point of view, using the term "Creature Type" is probably the least disruptive way to replace the term "Race".

So, Human, Elf, Dragonborn, Tiefling, etcetera are all "Creature Types".

When a player selects their "Creature Type", a number of mechanical descriptors might come with it.


With this in mind, other terms can become "Planar Type" (or "Planar Origin" as a 4e-ism):
• Astral
• Celestial
• Fiend
• Aberration

• Ethereal
• Fey
• Shadow
• Elemental

• Material

• Positive
• Negative

(The last two terms are not origins in themselves, but can modify other origins. For example, Dark Sun has a Positive Material Plane and a Negative Material Plane that are regions of Positivity or Negativity around the planet. Arguably, Fey is Positive Ether, and Shadow is Negative Ether; Celestial is Positive Aster, and Fiend is Negative Aster.)



Perhaps, the remaining 5e terms can be a "Descriptor" or a "Form Type" that signifies a set of mechanical features that a group of Creature Types might share in common:
• Beast
• Construct
• Dragon
• Giant
• Humanoid
• Monstrosity
• Ooze
• Plant
• Undead



Note, some terms might lack mechanics for a creature statblock:
• Demon
• Devil
• Yugoloth
• Goblinoid

(If there is no mechanical difference between Demon, Devil, and Yugoloth, except for alignment, I would probably delete these technical terms, and just refer to these creatures as Fiends, opposite the Celestials. Similarly, Goblinoid − it may be enough to mechanize them as Fey. These terms can still be parts of the flavor texts, such as a setting that has a Blood War between Fiends.)

 

[Branduil]

Thanks for avoiding the question:

Why can't a GOD make a species evil? Why can't magic make a species evil? Why can't curses make a species evil?

This is just a variation on the Thermian Argument. It is obviously possible for a fictional god to do whatever it wants. Notably, multiple real-world religions have, at various times, attempted to justify racism with the "God made us better" argument. I'm sure you can see the problem with that.

If someone's setting has humanoid creatures which are inherently evil, saying "the gods did it" does not absolve the setting of its real-world implications. Regardless of the in-universe justifications, the decision to depict an inherently evil race is a choice made by the human author.

 

[Yaarel]

There are now 151 votes in the Poll of the original post. Currently, the top votes are:

56.3% Ancestry
32.5% Species
29.8% Lineage
25.8% Heritage
22.5% Kin
21.2% Origin
19.9% Folk
11.3% Kindred

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Imo if a species is forced to just be outright evil (due to gods, magic, etc), then it is lacking any free will and shouldn't be a playable species.

A playable species should have free will and be able to be any alignment. Even if that species is mentally very 'different' from humans, free will and the ability to be any alignment is important for a player character.

 

[Andvari]

I'm not sure why alignment is being conflated with free will. You can be of a specific alignment and still act independently. Drow, as mentioned above, can act on their own even if evil. Perhaps not the best example as they are not always evil, but a classic one is devils. They are always lawful evil yet are not under mind control and can act independently. (Yes, sometimes they are summoned, bound and forced to do something, but that's not how they always operate, and magic can do this to most PCs as well)

Alignment is descriptive, not prescriptive. And even if it was prescriptive, it would not imply mind control.