New OGL - what would be acceptable? (+)

[Scribe]

No guarantee.
Nothing stopped PF from being made and the process was royalty free.

If WOTC just continued 3.5e which was getting stale, anyone could have use the OGL to make a fresh 3.75e. In most industries, that isn't allowed.

They could have, but if Wizards had not abandoned the OGL/SRD/3.5 path, there is approximately 0% chance a company could have taken that platform, and been more successful to the degree of Paizo.

4e is what opened the door, and Wizards in their wisdom, is just forcing people to make a choice again.

 

[mamba]

That's why I wrote "attempt to kill".

you must really suck at killing someone when they thrive like never before while you 'attempt' to kill them... More like no one is even attempting it.

But if the 2000s D&D side of WOTC was run like the MTG side or like more "gaming" companies, there's no way in Hades the OGL would look like it did.

and maybe D&D would no longer exist, we will never know

 

[Minigiant]

They could have, but if Wizards had not abandoned the OGL/SRD/3.5 path, there is approximately 0% chance a company could have taken that platform, and been more successful to the degree of Paizo.

Impossible to know and likely incorrect.

Had I won a huge lottery jackpot between 2004-2008, I 100% would have funded a 3.75e with many of the 3e complaints designed out.

 

[mhd]

If Chaosium were litigious, I can certainly see them making an argument that Delta Green is a knock-off of CoC.

Okay, I thought you were talking about downstream from DG.

I thought that Chaosium wasn't too sure about the safety of the OGL here anyway but DG are friendly enough, and the big thing is the not-open Mythras more than Legend anyway. Plus Chaosium's own licenses being offered…

Most of what you saw in the RPG space hasn't really been tested in the fires of litigation. Wouldn't be surprised if a few of the pre-SRD re-creations were legally iffy.

And that's the big problem here, threats would probably be enough for most participants.

 

[Minigiant]

you must really suck at killing someone when they thrive like never before while you 'attempt' to kill them... More like no one is even attempting it.

WOTC's D&D didn't get killed because TTPRGs was a niche industry at the time and only WOTC had a big business sponsor as a parent corporation.

That's likely why WOTC allowed the OGL to be so generous.
WOTC wrote the OGL for the case if it died. WOTC knew that it couldn't be killed only wounded because everyone else was so much smaller.

The issue with the 2020s is that some 3pps are bigger and easier to start up now.

 

[mamba]

The issue with the 2020s is that some 3pps are bigger and easier to start up now.

not sure that will change, they just will not produce D&D products any more

 

[FrogReaver]

I don't think that was the intent.

I think the intent of the OGL was o allow 3PPs to support 3.5. It wasn't to allow you to design a 3.75e and have it compete with 4e, 5e, or 6e.

I think it was.

If 3.5e is D&D to you then WOTC going 4e and stopping development of 3.5e was taking your D&D away. OGL was specifically designed so we didn't lose D&D.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I think it was.

If 3.5e is D&D to you then WOTC going 4e and stopping development of 3.5e was taking your D&D away. OGL was specifically designed so we didn't lose D&D.

Yeah like, I don't want to go full Face-Heel or Heel-Face turn here, but I gotta agree with @FrogReaver.

For some people, apparently quite a significant number, 4E was the death of D&D.

It wasn't for me. I like it! But like for other people, that was it, that's not D&D anymore!

And when Pathfinder got announced and so on, as someone who at the time wanted 4E to succeed, and supported WotC's vision of D&D, I never thought "Those dirty scoundrels abusing the OGL!". In fact I thought the opposite! "Oh good, well if they don't like 4E, those philistines, they can go play their own version of D&D, and no-one even needs to get mad, because they can coexist, thanks to the OGL!". Indeed that was a relatively common viewpoint that people often used to attempt to defuse edition warring threads.

Imagine incredibly the edition wars 4E would have caused without the OGL!!!!!

Can we just imagine that for a minute. It would Edition World War 3. No-one would have survived. Cockroaches would be the only things left posting on ENworld. Again I love 4E, but it was controversial as hell (in large part because WotC are idiots). The OGL saved D&D. There I said it. If 4E had come out, and there was no way to make an alternative 3E-like D&D without creating a new system and possibly even going to court, that would have all been so much worse, so much higher stakes!

 

[Minigiant]

I think it was.

If 3.5e is D&D to you then WOTC going 4e and stopping development of 3.5e was taking your D&D away. OGL was specifically designed so we didn't lose D&D.

My point was that OGL allow 3.5e to live.
It wasn't intended for someone to use 3.5e to make 3.75e, 3.8e, or 3.9999e and compete with 3.5e or the eventual 4e. Especially not for free.

not sure that will change, they just will not produce D&D products any more

Sure.

My point was that when the OGL was drafted, it would for a niche industry with little worldwide visibility with a bunch of tiny companies and one major corp. WOTC wasn't worried about competition.

 

[FrogReaver]

My point was that OGL allow 3.5e to live.
It wasn't intended for someone to use 3.5e to make 3.75e, 3.8e, or 3.9999e and compete with 3.5e or the eventual 4e. Especially not for free.

Of course it was. That's the whole point of derivative works. If you don't like XYZ about 3.5e, you can use SRD and create your own D&D 3.5 like game with XYZ changed. Make enough changes and whala you have what coloquially would be known as 3.75. (Of course, good luck getting people to play your 3.75 so long as 3.5e was being actively supported by WOTC).

The ability to do that wasn't an oversight with the OGL, it was fundamental to it.