D&D (2024) Playtest Packet 6: Monk reactions?

[Chaosmancer]

Ok how about...

You have a pool equal to 3 + Wis.

At the end of each of your turns, you regain 1. This increases to 2 per turn at level 11. And 3 per turn at level 17.

*Flurry of blows cost 1 per extra attack (max wis points).
*Step on the wind cost 1 for disengage or dash, 2 for both.
*Patent defense gives +2 AC per point spent (max wis points).

Subclass cost can be adjusted as well.

Yes, exactly. I go on about it all the time, but the Grit mechanic Matt Mercer used/borrowed for his Gunslinger is a good one, where certain conditions recover a point. And honestly, I feel a bit inspired for whatever reason, so let's work on a few things. In particular, I started remembering Fizban had a very unique design for the Ascendant Dragon that I think could be applied to a few things.

@mellored 's recovery: Honestly having some recovery isn't a bad idea, but maybe make it fast with a limit. How about this:

• You can gain back Discipline Points by spending a Bonus Action to "Focus". This means you are still acting on your turn, but since most Monk-gimmicks are based around Bonus Action, it still imposes a little bit of cost.
• You gain back Discipline Points equal to your Proficiency Modifier. Simple and it scales with level.
• You can use this power a number of times equal to Wisdom modifier. You regain all charges on after a Long Rest. Simple and easy limit, one that is already used in one of the classes.

So let's build a subclass that could use this sort of balance to remove some of the DP cost to their class features. I could do the Elementalist... but I don't think I have enough good ideas for it right now other than giving them a number of free Elemental Attunments equal to their Wisdom Mod every day. If they (somehow) manage to run out of those, they could then spend a DP to do it. Then you could do a number of small effects to spend on a DP: a frost blast that slows, a lightning blast that stuns, a fire blast for persistent damage, etc. But let's choose an easier one to immediately has out.

The Way of Mercy

3rd Level - Implements of Mercy

• Keep as is. I'm not copying this out of the book, but let's just keep this one the same. Seems good enough as is.

3rd Level - Chosen Technique "Step of Safety":

• They can Disengage as a Bonus Action for Free. Medics need to run around the field getting to people who need healing. Simple as that.

3rd Level - Hands of Healing/Harm

• You can heal or harm with a touch via pressure points/ki/whatever. You can do 1d12+Proficiency Mod Necrotic Damage if you hit a target or 1d12+Prof Mod Healing to a target. In the original it's just the Martial Arts Die plus Wisdom, but that could potentially be less than what you normally deal if you have better Dex? Maxing the Die plus Prof means it'll still advance and will outstrip the new Monk progression... which it really should if you are spending DP on it.
• You get uses of this technique equal to your Wisdom Modifier. These recover after a Long Rest. If you are out of uses, you may spend 1 DP to use this technique instead. Again, get some free uses of the technique before forcing someone to use DP.
• You may boost this technique by spending 1 DP (not free uses) to add a second d12 to the roll. This can be done after the attack is made. Hey, not quite a smite, but free damage and an easy, interesting boost of the power.

6th/11th/17th - Physician's Touch/Flurry of Healing & Harm/Hand of Ultimate Mercy

• Keep as is. Not much problems after this first part, since you can cut the DP cost and give them a few free ones to spend in a pinch.

These are some interesting ideas here. I may have to dig into this design space again in a few months

 

[Chaosmancer]

Also keep in mind that it means the Monk will start every fight at full ki every time. for people that don't have a whole lot of short rests its a HUGE increase in the amount of ki. Not double, more like triple or even 4x the amount depending. The monk basically no longer has to conserve ki in the slightest, they can burn every single bit of it, every time, with the confidence that within a minute or two it will always be back.

Its a complete game changer.

A game changer, sure.

But monks need a game changer. So the better question is, is it too crazy?

 

[Stalker0]

Feel free to give it a try and let me know if it works.

As I said, I already had a houserule similar to this and had a player use it in my game. It was straight up too good.

 

[mellored]

As I said, I already had a houserule similar to this and had a player use it in my game. It was straight up too good.

With double costs too?

 

[Shardstone]

Feels like the monk fell victim to being the last class designed at the end of the experimentation period. Now that we know that huge changes requiring multiple drafts are not going to get playtested or experimented with anymore, we're left with getting a 2014 monk+.

Weapon mastery is a fun feature, so that makes the monk worth playing. I like the bigger focus on martial artist instead of ki-empowered warrior. I wish they had more things they could do with an unarmed attack though. I know unarmed attacks can grapple and shove, but I wish base Monk could spend Discipline Points to inflict like blinded, deafened, etc, representing using techniques to box the ears or something in combat.

 

[Clint_L]

I don't always agree with DnDShorts, but he very accurately summarizes the problems with this update, which he considers a "failure" if it is the final iteration:

 

[Clint_L]

Weapon mastery is a fun feature, so that makes the monk worth playing. I like the bigger focus on martial artist instead of ki-empowered warrior. I wish they had more things they could do with an unarmed attack though. I know unarmed attacks can grapple and shove, but I wish base Monk could spend Discipline Points to inflict like blinded, deafened, etc, representing using techniques to box the ears or something in combat.

Weapon mastery is a fun feature that benefits monk least of any martial class, because it doesn't benefit their unarmed attacks, and now they can only use their martial arts die for unarmed attacks. So at best half your attacks don't get mastery. If you prefer playing a monk without weapons (a classic archetype), then none of your attacks get mastery. If, at high levels, you want to take full advantage of your martial arts die by using it for all attacks...no mastery.

Plus, this warps monks so that at low levels if you do want to get probably the optimal build to take advantage of weapon mastery, you should probably fight with a hand axe and dagger offhand. You know, just like you always pictured a monk.

Weapon mastery is a de facto nerf for monks. WotC actually addresses this, claiming that +1 damage to the martial arts die is intended to balance for it not getting weapon mastery. It does not! That tiny damage increase has been needed for years just to help monks keep up, before weapon mastery was ever a thing. Give monks weapon mastery on their unarmed strikes!

The main problem with monks has been clear since 5e launched, and I am really surprised that WotC did basically nothing to address it, especially at the lower levels were almost all games are played: monks without resources are terrible, with low damage and survivability, and even with resources they can be good at one OR the other, not both at the same time, unlike other martial classes. They did have one thing going for them: previously, if you got the monk to level 5 you had a clear niche: you could spam all your resources if necessary to fairly reliably shut a key opponent down for a turn, or force them to burn through legendary resistances. Now your niche is...?

My main takeaway from the base class is that its one defining, really good ability, stunning strike, is nerfed to the ground, with not a lot to make up for it.

 

[mellored]

Weapon mastery is a fun feature that benefits monk least of any martial class, because it doesn't benefit their unarmed attacks, and now they can only use their martial arts die for unarmed attacks

unarmed attack got flex. The least interesting option. But still a mastery.

Not that it fixes their low level issues.

 

[Clint_L]

Imagine a 2nd level monk. You spent a game or so at first level, not really able to do anything special. But now you have di points and some new abilities. Now, the fun begins! And look, a mob of goblins, threatening the party!

Round 1: You spot an enemy shaman, using their magic to wreak havoc. No worries; you spend your first ever di point to leap over the awed goblins in front, engaging the shocked spellcaster. Feels pretty good - you miss on your only attack, but you'll get them next round!

Round 2: Ouch. It turns out that your 16 AC isn't really that great, and so you took 11 damage when some of the goblins came back to help their buddy, leaving you with just 4 HP (luckily that one goblin rolled a 19 and not a 20 - close one!). You take another swing at the shaman, hitting them with your staff for 8 points of damage. Discretion being the better part of valour, you use your sole remaining di point to disengage and step of the wind, leaping back over the goblins mobbing you and rushing back to your party's own spell casters - hopefully one of them can spare you a heal, since they now have 4 spell slots each plus cantrips.

Round 3: Huh...no one wants to heal you since apparently it is a "waste of resources." Jen's raging barbarian is up front crushing goblins with seeming impunity, alongside Jamie's chainmail+shield protected fighter. Good thing you brought these darts! You prepare to make your meaningful contribution.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Plus, this warps monks so that at low levels if you do want to get probably the optimal build to take advantage of weapon mastery, you should probably fight with a hand axe and dagger offhand. You know, just like you always pictured a monk.

This is the main thing to take away from the current design, without even worrying whether anything about it is strong or weak.