D&D General What is player agency to you?

[mamba]

My preferred approach, in RPGing, to the possibility of being caught by surprise, is dice rolls. But D&D uses a mixture of dice rolls and fiat authority. The Noble ability is fiat authority, and the flavour text for it underpins that: the player knows the ways of their own social class. If the player declares use of the ability, it's too late for the GM to now retroactively tell them about stuff they knew that would explain why the action can't be declared.

as I said repeatedly, I do not care, that text is not a law, it is a guideline.

If there are reasons to not grant an audience then you knowing ‘how to fill out the form’ still gets your application denied.

No one said you cannot ask for an audience (that is declaring the action), you simply do not get one.

 

[mamba]

I just find it so hard to believe that so many GMs just...want to find reasons not to let people do things.

you are completely twisting the discussion here

 

[Vaalingrade]

So what is the point of the background or the point of trying anything in the game if the DM can just no-sell it?

 

[Vaalingrade]

you are completely twisting the discussion here

They're making an observation based on clear evidence provided in this thread.

 

[mamba]

If the GM is deciding what does and doesn't happen, the GM is exercising agency over the fiction. And I, as a player, am not - even though the game rules tell me that this is a place where I am entitled to do that!

For me, that's it.

if that is your line, that is your prerogative.

 

[mamba]

Why have the examples shifted from something reasonable that might actually come up - a noble seeking an audience - to players trying to jump over the moon or find eggs (?) in a lifeless demiplane?

for the same reason that it shifted from ‘an audience is not guaranteed when there are good reasons to not grant one’ to ‘these DMs suck, they never let me do anything’

 

[mamba]

They're making an observation based on clear evidence provided in this thread.

I have consistently said that this is a rare exception

 

[soviet]

as I said repeatedly, I do not care, that text is not a law, it is a guideline.

If there are reasons to not grant an audience then you knowing ‘how to fill out the form’ still gets your application denied.

No one said you cannot ask for an audience (that is declaring the action), you simply do not get one.

Can you make a Persuasion check or equivalent?

 

[mamba]

Can you make a Persuasion check or equivalent?

that depends on the situation, but for the sake of this argument, no / the barrier is so high that you will not make it.

Again, my point is there can be circumstances where you simply will not get one. This is a rare exception, but in the end the circumstances override the text.

I am not going to guarantee an audience no matter what, even when in practice you pretty much always end up getting one

 

[hawkeyefan]

that depends on the situation, but for the sake of this argument, no / the barrier is so high that you will not make it.

Again, my point is there can be circumstances there you simply will not get one. This is a rare exception, but in the end the circumstances override the text.

I am not going to guarantee an audience no matter what, even when in practice you pretty much always end up getting one

Okay… but I think an important question is less about what those circumstances are, and instead, why those circumstances are.