D&D General What is player agency to you?

[FrogReaver]

One other thought

While certainly not the ‘locus of play’ for a game like d&d, it does seem that players have greater agency over their character than their setting. As an example, This is something we see in many d&d players opposition to mechanics that alter mental state outside the fictional ‘magic’ explanation.

I think that in any game the areas not under the ‘locus of play’ generally are given more player freedom (often misconstrued as agency) - it’s just those details not in the locus of play generally don’t matter to play or only do so tabgentially. Some other technique needs involved to ensure that these are meaningful choices under the ‘locus of play’.

That is where I think the technique of DM principles that focus on framing and resolution around player declared locus’s really comes to the forefront. The game enforces the concepts the players desire as the locus of play. (Maybe a separate tangent imagining what this could look like applied to a setting locus rpg could be interesting)

Vice versus - I think it would be fair to say that due to the locus of play for narrative games being more character (not the best descriptor IMO) that setting in narrative games is or can be given more player freedom without impacting the locus of play or player agency.

 

[Pedantic]

I think I understand from context but I’m not familiar with ‘magic circles’.

I think the introduction on this Wikipedia article and the focus on "virtual worlds" is a bit of a mischaracterization, but the general content in the history section is useful.

Magic circle (virtual worlds) - Wikipedia

 

[Pedantic]

*I don't see the point of splitting player and character agency.

This is part of where goals rapidly diverge in a way that makes conversation impossible. This is not a point that enters into consideration at all for you, I generally consider it a design failure when the two things diverge, and other players view it as a natural and normal part of gameplay.

 

[Oofta]

This is part of where goals rapidly diverge in a way that makes conversation impossible. This is not a point that enters into consideration at all for you, I generally consider it a design failure when the two things diverge, and other players view it as a natural and normal part of gameplay.

I simply don't see a difference. We are playing pretend, whether or not we only interact with the fiction by our character options or not is not relevant. In either case the player is having an effect on the fiction and the options are limited on how much they can change. It's just expressed in different ways.

 

[Campbell]

This is part of where goals rapidly diverge in a way that makes conversation impossible. This is not a point that enters into consideration at all for you, I generally consider it a design failure when the two things diverge, and other players view it as a natural and normal part of gameplay.

I don't think it makes conversation impossible. It just requires us to realize that things we don't personally value have value to others and be mindful of that in our conversations.

 

[FrogReaver]

I don't think it makes conversation impossible. It just requires us to realize that things we don't personally value have value to others and be mindful of that in our conversations.

Agreed! Though as a whole we have a terrible track record of doing that.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I simply don't see a difference. We are playing pretend, whether or not we only interact with the fiction by our character options or not is not relevant. In either case the player is having an effect on the fiction and the options are limited on how much they can change. It's just expressed in different ways.

The different expressions matter to how the game fee, though. Which is the whole point of the game: to feel fun.

 

[Oofta]

The different expressions matter to how the game fee, though. Which is the whole point of the game: to feel fun.

There's absolutely different feel and approach, no argument from me. After reading up and watching some streams, I wouldn't want to play a PbtA game, it just wouldn't work for me. But if it works for you or someone else? Cool. We don't all have to like the same things.

 

[Raiztt]

There's absolutely different feel and approach, no argument from me. After reading up and watching some streams, I wouldn't want to play a PbtA game, it just wouldn't work for me. But if it works for you or someone else? Cool. We don't all have to like the same things.

Years and years ago I gave it a try and my group just hated it, we never looked at it again.

 

[hawkeyefan]

*I don't see the point of splitting player and character agency.

Because one is real and one is not real.