D&D 5E Who tried to end the OGL?

[Oofta]

So you’re saying they had zero correlation? No one was drawn to D&D by virtue of Critical Role or Stranger Things. It was entirely internal organic growth?

A lot of people claim that D&D's success is because of Stranger Things and Critical Role. There are a lot of contributing factors of course, but there was no significant increase in sales of D&D after the release of either because it was already on a significant upward trend. It always feels dismissive of the fact that a lot of people just happen to have fun playing the game, it simply works for many. Which is no reflection on other games, I just don't see many other games like [spin the wheel of RPGs to get a random game] Call of Cthulhu having such broad appeal.

 

[TiQuinn]

A lot of people claim that D&D's success is because of Stranger Things and Critical Role. There are a lot of contributing factors of course, but there was no significant increase in sales of D&D after the release of either because it was already on a significant upward trend.

I think it’s very rare that you see clear smoking guns in sales numbers. What you do see are trends over time but who’s to say how much stronger those trends are due to these external factors. Usually you don’t see the whole picture until decades later.

 

[Clint_L]

It’s really hard to quantify what made 5e so popular. I think the main reason is demographics: people who grew up playing D&D got to an age where they had either time to return to it or (much more often) children they could introduce to it. And a few of them got to an age where they had the clout to bring D&D into their work in the entertainment industry, which helped sustain the trend.

 

[Oofta]

But their revenue from the rules is also due to name recognition and critical mass. 5e would sell far less if it wasn't called Dungeons and Dragons.

I think it’s very rare that you see clear smoking guns in sales numbers. What you do see are trends over time but who’s to say how much stronger those trends are due to these external factors. Usually you don’t see the whole picture until decades later.

The sales of 5E were significantly better than anyone expected from the day of release. I can't find the chart anymore (it was posted somewhere on this forum) that showed the estimated sales by month for the first several years. Unlike the previous couple of editions which saw a lot of sales initially and then dropped off, every year for 5E saw steady double digit growth. The rate of increase was not affected by the release of Stranger Things.

I think it was pretty much inevitable that there would be an 800 pound gorilla when it came to TTRPGs. If it wasn't D&D it would be some other game or the TTRPG industry would be even more of a niche product than it already is. Throw in other factors like people wanting to connect in person and not just online, older gamers having kids old enough to play, etc..

So while I agree we will never know everything that contributed, statements like yours also seem to dismiss that D&D 5E is a good game that works for a lot of people. It hits a nice broad target demographic. Relatively easy to learn, kind of bland and generic base that can be tweaked and customized for individual tastes. It may not be the best game for you, but most players are pretty casual. They just want a social activity to gather around a table and have some fun. D&D 5E does that.

 

[Mistwell]

I think they’re being incredibly shortsighted if they give up on the movie route. No one was expecting that movie to be good and some people were still a bit tentative about returning to theaters.

There is a great movie in theaters right now (Fall Guy) experiencing the same thing the D&D movie experienced. It's been happening for years now since the pandemic. People see like 3 movies a year now where they used to see 10, and unless a movie looks likely to make someone's top 3 based on previews they just don't see it.

I still think at the end of the day the D&D movie broke even or was a small plus for the studio. But they need to cut the budget for a second movie.

 

[Umbran]

There are parts in 3.5 that are Open Content but not in the SRD, including Unearthed Arcana. If they are that worried about releasing stuff into Creative Commons and truly no longer intend to deauthorize the OGL, they could just release a OGL 1.3 that is similar to OGL 1.0a but irrevocable.

I don't think WotC is concerned with providing better support for third party publishers on the legacy editions.

 

[Nikosandros]

I don't think WotC is concerned with providing better support for third party publishers on the legacy editions.

Indeed. I believe that their motivation is to increase goodwill in the customers. So, IMHO, they will work towards the release, but moving along the path of least resistance and without prioritizing it.

 

[Umbran]

Indeed. I believe that their motivation is to increase goodwill in the customers. So, IMHO, they will work towards the release, but moving along the path of least resistance and without prioritizing it.

Most companies have more ideas for work than they can ever execute on, so, things that aren't prioritized will generally not get done.

 

[TiQuinn]

I think it was pretty much inevitable that there would be an 800 pound gorilla when it came to TTRPGs.

There’s been an 800 pound gorilla since the mid-70s.

So while I agree we will never know everything that contributed, statements like yours also seem to dismiss that D&D 5E is a good game that works for a lot of people.

I’m not dismissing the game at all. Two things can be equally true. D&D 5e is a good game and their most successful edition and it also got extra buzz and attention from the rise of streaming and long form actual plays, including celebrity involvement. Which came first, the chicken or the egg, is almost irrelevant. Wizards capitalized on the rise of streaming, and creators chose to make D&D a focal part of their work - it was mutually beneficial.

 

[Parmandur]

as far as I remember they offered exactly zero carrots, unless you consider having to pay 5% less in the first year for signing on fast a carrot

In retrospect based on all the 3PP coming to Beyond now, it seems clear that they thought the carrot of Beyond access would bring existing 3pp on board with the changes while making entry difficult if a Microsoft or Meta tried to enter the market.