D&D 5E Greyhawk: Pitching the Reboot

[Hussar]

Sorry, just needed to correct.

Ramne in Orlane (Cult of the Reptile God) is a 7th level MU. In addition, there are a Ranger 4, an elven F/MU 2/2, 3 Monk 4's, the town's cleric is a C3, while the head of the church is a C7.

Again, in a small town, you have both a 7th level cleric and a 7th level MU. Hardly rare. Granted, not as caster heavy as Homlett, but, still.

 

[Pauln6]

Sorry, just needed to correct.

Ramne in Orlane (Cult of the Reptile God) is a 7th level MU. In addition, there are a Ranger 4, an elven F/MU 2/2, 3 Monk 4's, the town's cleric is a C3, while the head of the church is a C7.

Again, in a small town, you have both a 7th level cleric and a 7th level MU. Hardly rare. Granted, not as caster heavy as Homlett, but, still.

Yeah I think the early modules were not thinking about worldbuilding so they put in resources that PCs might need. Many of the modules deal with small settlements close to something awful, so in some ways, maybe none of them are typical.

I was quite conflicted when the 3e DMG2 did an update on Saltmarsh because it felt nothing like Saltmarsh to me at all being chock full of spell-casters, lizard-folk embassies, and resources. I kept it and re-purposed it as the nearby capital, Seaton but even then, I still think they went a bit overboard.

That's why I think taking Greyhawk and saying here is baseline Greyhawk, here is what you can do to make higher magic Greyhawk and here is what you can do to make lower magic Greyhawk. There is no unified view as its flexibility has led to a hotchpotch.

 

[Scott Christian]

I really like the idea of @Snarf Zagyg message of not slavishly recreating and learning from the old setting to make it different from other settings. My two coppers would be:

• Lean in on the politics. I say this for two reasons. One, so each nation can be a little more xenophobic than modern settings. This, in turn, will highlight the species, class, and caste structures of each area. Two, it has the possibility for good RP from a player perspective. Align yourself with this kingdom and become renown; suddenly some parts of another kingdom possibly become off limits. Align yourself with that kingdom and earn renown; now the political leaders are asking you to do some shady stuff. (For the record, I think Mercer's Explorers Guide to Wildemount did a pretty good job with factions. It might be worth the writer's time to revisit that book.)
• DM's Guide to everything! There really needs to be expanded sections that are codified as rules the DM can implement for various settings - low magic being one of them. Nerf the heck out of the spells, it's an alternate setting. They really need to dismiss the balanced game approach for these alternate setting rules, and instead focus on how those settings can be made fun. This ties in to Greyhawk, as it will mean different things to different people. Heroic Fantasy Greyhawk? Sure. Just be clear how you're making those kingdoms heroic too. Again, don't worry about balance. Want to change the death rules for grimdark - codify it so younger players can experience something other than three death saves, a million opportunities to heal, and a hundred opportunities to be resurrected.
• Lastly, @TwoSix mentioned a Witcher vibe. I think this is spot on. To do that thought, I believe you need to reconstruct the daily encounter system. Maybe for Greyhawk, make it one to two encounters per day. Up the ante on monsters.

And as much as I like @The Glen suggestion of isolationism and racial disparity, and how that can lead to my above suggestion, I think it will be a hurdle for most groups. To do that, you really need to species as a culture. Some species in 2024, like aasimar and tiefling are not a culture - they are unique individuals.

 

[Wolfpack48]

I really like the idea of @Snarf Zagyg message of not slavishly recreating and learning from the old setting to make it different from other settings. My two coppers would be:

• Lean in on the politics. I say this for two reasons. One, so each nation can be a little more xenophobic than modern settings. This, in turn, will highlight the species, class, and caste structures of each area. Two, it has the possibility for good RP from a player perspective. Align yourself with this kingdom and become renown; suddenly some parts of another kingdom possibly become off limits. Align yourself with that kingdom and earn renown; now the political leaders are asking you to do some shady stuff. (For the record, I think Mercer's Explorers Guide to Wildemount did a pretty good job with factions. It might be worth the writer's time to revisit that book.)
• DM's Guide to everything! There really needs to be expanded sections that are codified as rules the DM can implement for various settings - low magic being one of them. Nerf the heck out of the spells, it's an alternate setting. They really need to dismiss the balanced game approach for these alternate setting rules, and instead focus on how those settings can be made fun. This ties in to Greyhawk, as it will mean different things to different people. Heroic Fantasy Greyhawk? Sure. Just be clear how you're making those kingdoms heroic too. Again, don't worry about balance. Want to change the death rules for grimdark - codify it so younger players can experience something other than three death saves, a million opportunities to heal, and a hundred opportunities to be resurrected.
• Lastly, @TwoSix mentioned a Witcher vibe. I think this is spot on. To do that thought, I believe you need to reconstruct the daily encounter system. Maybe for Greyhawk, make it one to two encounters per day. Up the ante on monsters.

And as much as I like @The Glen suggestion of isolationism and racial disparity, and how that can lead to my above suggestion, I think it will be a hurdle for most groups. To do that, you really need to species as a culture. Some species in 2024, like aasimar and tiefling are not a culture - they are unique individuals.

I foresee a Greyhawk 5e24 book coming out, but rather than being yet another set of detailed splatbooks on the world, I see it as more of a guidebook to GMs looking to develop their own version of Greyhawk. It'll give ideas and campaign and adventure seeds to riff off, and perhaps some worksheets to help them develop their own unique version of Greyhawk. It'll be an interesting new line of releases giving players the tools to develop their own world rather than WoTC published world "canon."

 

[Scott Christian]

I foresee a Greyhawk 5e24 book coming out, but rather than being yet another set of detailed splatbooks on the world, I see it as more of a guidebook to GMs looking to develop their own version of Greyhawk. It'll give ideas and campaign and adventure seeds to riff off, and perhaps some worksheets to help them develop their own unique version of Greyhawk. It'll be an interesting new line of releases giving players the tools to develop their own world rather than WoTC published world "canon."

You are probably correct.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Yeah I think the early modules were not thinking about worldbuilding so they put in resources that PCs might need. Many of the modules deal with small settlements close to something awful, so in some ways, maybe none of them are typical.

I was quite conflicted when the 3e DMG2 did an update on Saltmarsh because it felt nothing like Saltmarsh to me at all being chock full of spell-casters, lizard-folk embassies, and resources. I kept it and re-purposed it as the nearby capital, Seaton but even then, I still think they went a bit overboard.

That's why I think taking Greyhawk and saying here is baseline Greyhawk, here is what you can do to make higher magic Greyhawk and here is what you can do to make lower magic Greyhawk. There is no unified view as its flexibility has led to a hotchpotch.

chock full seems overboard but few seems likely just given the stuff going on and a lizardfolk emissary seems likely but lots seems unlikely.

page count means you get one interpretation so it is better to fight for which ever one you would prefer

 

[haakon1]

My point was that in every printed example of a settlement in Greyhawk, you have characters like Rufus. It's hard to claim that these are outliers when they appear in every single settlement. Orlane has a 6th level wizard.

In Hommlet, in addition to Rufus and Burne, there's a 4th level ranger (Elmo) whose brother is a 10th level ranger, a 3rd level Druid, a 10th level thief, a 7th level assassin, the church has a 3rd and 6th level priest, there is a 7th level druid, and Spugnoir, 2nd level MU.

Doesn't seem like casters are particularly rare. That's 5 spellcasters, in addition to Burne, in a village.

Which is the point I was making. If Rufus is the outlier, what about the other 5 spellcasters who are specifically part of the town?

Hommlet is an outlier.

 

[Parmandur]

Hommlet is an outlier.

But is it, though...?

 

[billd91]

But is it, though...?

It IS in an area where specific agents of governments and more powerful patrons are stationed (along with Nulb) to monitor a past hotspot for evil. So I think a case can be made it's different from your average town far from such notable sites.

 

[Parmandur]

It IS in an area where specific agents of governments and more powerful patrons are stationed (along with Nulb) to monitor a past hotspot for evil. So I think a case can be made it's different from your average town far from such notable sites.

But is it enough of an outlier to say that Greyhawk was presented as "low magic"...? I am doubtful.