D&D General Hot Take: Dungeon Exploration Requires Light Rules To Be Fun

[mamba]

tables don't make a game heavy

to me they very much do, anything that slows down play at the table / requires looking at books does

all optional and explicitly so

good, because I ignored them right then and there.

I disagree with your claim that optional rules do not count towards the weight however. I have to read them, understand them, evaluate them and then decide whether to use them, ignore them or modify them, just like anything else.

 

[Reynard]

to me they very much do, anything that slows down play at the table / requires looking at books does

Everything on those tables except the to-hit matrix goes on the character sheet. I reject the notion that a to-hit matrix is "heavy."

 

[borringman]

Resource management isn't the same as "crunchy."

It 100% is to a lot of people. I know folks don't agree on a fixed definition of "crunchy", but I don't have a dog in that fight (per above, my take isn't about "what's crunchy" but "what are you getting for your crunch") and I'm not making this up. You have a right to your own take, fine, but you can't hand-wave the sheer amount of times I've seen people describe resource tracking as "crunchy". That interpretation is too widespread.

I don't care if you're talking about 1e, 2e, 3.0, 3.5, 4e, 5e, or 5.24. You have three large hardbacks full of rules.

FWIW, this is a misconception based purely on visual impact. D&D5, at least, for better or worse, has been structured to be as simple as possible for the players. You aren't even supposed to look at the MM, DMG, or adventure modules, and 90% of the remaining material -- the Player's Handbook -- is player options (species, class, background, equipment, feats, spells) that mostly get sorted out between sessions. It's a quirk of a class-based system, but if you're playing a melee build the amount of relevant in-game material might be less than 20 pages, maybe even less than ten.

The headache DMs have to deal with, on the other hand. . .

 

[Charlaquin]

i agree, and while i don't mean to sound elitist or one true way gaming this may still come off as it: if your dungeon crawl isn't dealing with those sorts of things are you really dungeon crawling or are you just adventuring and happen to be inside a dungeon while you do it? or rather, a dungeon crawl is a certain type of experience/playstyle

i would probably add mapping the dungeon to that prior list.

I agree that mapping to some extent is an important part of dungeon crawling, though it need not necessarily be overly detailed or precise. But, dungeon delving is primarily a navigation challenge, so filling in a map of the space being navigated is an important element.

 

[mamba]

Everything on those tables except the to-hit matrix goes on the character sheet. I reject the notion that a to-hit matrix is "heavy."

because characters only ever use one weapon, right?

 

[Reynard]

On the actual topic:

The primary reason i think that rules light games are necessary for a successful dungeon delving campaign (be it a megadungeon or episodic smaller dungeons) is that heavy/crunchy games make EVERYTHING take longer, which turns dungeon crawling into an insufferable slog. Whether it is searching for traps or fighting goblins or dealing with a stuck door, games with lots of fiddly rules (my definition of "heavy" here) force the pace of play to slow to a crawl and it is that -- not difficulty of resource tracking or lighting or whatever- that makes dungeons unfun.

 

[Reynard]

because characters only ever use one weapon, right?

What are you talking about? Rolemaster? Because AD&D doesn't use different matrices for different weapons.

 

[borringman]

because characters only ever use one weapon, right?

In D&D? Generally. . . yes. Many class options are built around weapon qualities such that you only ever use one weapon, unless the DM takes it from you, and that's usually viewed as punishment because it nerfs the build.

 

[mamba]

What are you talking about? Rolemaster? Because AD&D doesn't use different matrices for different weapons.

I am talking about these tables

 

[TiQuinn]

are you really dungeon crawling

Given there's no formal definition of dungeon crawling, and since your PC is exploring a dungeon, then I say yes, it is dungeon crawling. What it may not be is resource management.