Calibans, Mongrelfolk and diability awareness

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

So Calibans and Mongrelfolk are DnD lineages that occur in Ravenloft and I'm currently considering a game in which they show up - including a friendly Caliban character based on Quasimodo (Acolyte, Bellringer (Bard)).

But then I got to thinking about the issue of his 'misshapen' hunchback being linked to a curse. I also got to thinking about the Igor character of DIscworld, who can stitch bodyparts and an optional lithp - How do you think such things should be handled?

I don't think "handicap = curse" is really the way to go nowadays, to put it mildly.

I'm not sure there is a place for an Igor type outside of Discworld, where it's implied that the Igors might have once just looked like other humans before they got a little excited about medical experimentation on themselves.

 

[Necropolitan]

The mythic characters are interesting, I've always wondered what the connection between Blacksmiths and disability was, iirc Volund was deliberately hamstrung wasnt he?

It's because in a lot of real life cultures if someone was strong enough to be a blacksmith they'd instead become a warrior. A disabled person might have the strength to hammer metal but otherwise not be able to fight (if they had a problem with their legs for example).

"Sure you might not be able to win honor as a warrior but you can get second-hand honor forging weapons for them" basically.

There's a great book on ancient Greece that talked about this that I'm currently forgetting the name of but I'll post it when I remember it.

 

[aramis erak]

I don't think "handicap = curse" is really the way to go nowadays, to put it mildly.

I tend to agree,

I'm not sure there is a place for an Igor type outside of Discworld, where it's implied that the Igors might have once just looked like other humans before they got a little excited about medical experimentation on themselves.

There are ways to make it workable...
X was born tall, proud, handsome, cruel, vicious, and vindictive... but when he crossed the wrong crone... she twisted his body to match his soul, forcing him, unrecognizable, out of his home, wealth, and powoer...
The kind hearted amongst the street beggars saw he ate until he learned to beg... and to respect others... now, those who saved him are going missing, and only he is willing to got looking...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

X was born tall, proud, handsome, cruel, vicious, and vindictive... but when he crossed the wrong crone... she twisted his body to match his soul, forcing him, unrecognizable, out of his home, wealth, and powoer...
The kind hearted amongst the street beggars saw he ate until he learned to beg... and to respect others... now, those who saved him are going missing, and only he is willing to got looking...

That still is equating deformity with sin, which is not something I'm interested in doing.

 

[Bedrockgames]

That still is equating deformity with sin, which is not something I'm interested in doing.

In that example though it is just one guy who was transformed by an individual crone, who wanted his external features to reflect his soul, it wasn't 'everyone in the setting who is deformed is a sinner'.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

In that example though it is just one guy who was transformed by an individual crone, who wanted his external features to reflect his soul, it wasn't 'everyone in the setting who is deformed is a sinner'.

It's still equating deformity of the body with deformity of the soul, whoever's responsible for rendering judgment. That's part of a long, very ugly tradition.

You do you, but I won't be doing that at my table.

 

[Anon Adderlan]

Keep in mind disability only exists in context, especially in fantasy. The lack of darkvision is a disability for an Elf. The inability to fly is a disability for an Aarakocra. And for something to be a disability it needs to meaningfully restrict the choices available to the character. Otherwise it's just window dressing and ultimately erasure.

the word “m*ngrel” is a slur and an unacceptable inclusion in a game product.

Only in the right context. And we surrender our ability to refer to very basic concepts if we ban every word which could possibly be used as a slur in the right context.

Its too easy to say a character has a disability then entirely ignore the disability - eg DareDevils 'blindness' (but its supers so heh) or the Blind Swordsman in general - so how do you portray a fully realised character with a disability in an adventure game without minimising it? ...

Daredevil cannot identify color coding nor read a computer screen, which is a pretty big deal. Again disability is all about context.

Equating shortness of a fantasy species with real life disability is not the same thing, and is reductive.

Dear lord the jokes write themselves.

 

[Bedrockgames]

It still equating deformity of the body with deformity of the soul, whoever's responsible for rendering judgment. That's part of a long, very ugly tradition.

It is not. It is just a single instance of a person with a curse where they have a physical deformity that reflects their internal nature. However presumably all the other people in the setting who have physical deformities have them simply because of dumb luck of birth, an accident, etc.

You do you, but I won't be doing that at my table.

Sure you can do what you want and should only do what you feel comfortable with. But I think this doesn't harm anyone. Like I said, I have a disability myself. While I obviously don't think the disability reflects anything bad about me at all, the pain a disability can cause, that is ripe for this sort of drama and melodrama I think (and I frankly find it cathartic to have characters where the negatives of it aren't shied away from: but like I said, I do also like having it handled in a wide variety of ways). I could easily write an NPC or a story where a character has the condition I do, except instead of being chased by something mundane, like an illness, it was a product of a witch's curse. This wouldn't bother me because it isn't a commentary on the worth of disabled people

 

[Morrus]

It is not. It is just a single instance of a person with a curse where they have a physical deformity that reflects their internal nature. However presumably all the other people in the setting who have physical deformities have them simply because of dumb luck of birth, an accident, etc.

They're not "single instances", though, are they? That's how disabled people have been portray for decades (well, centuries, if you include pre-mass-media). I mean, you are referring to them as 'deformed'. Really?

 

[Bedrockgames]

They're not "single instances", though, are they? That's how disabled people have been portray for decades (well, centuries, if you include pre-mass-media). I mean, you are referring to them as 'deformed'. Really?

In the example the poster was responding to it was just a single instance in the setting. It wasn't how disabilities as a whole operate in the setting. I used the term deformed because that was the language of the prior post I was responding to. I don't think I have done anything wrong here. I just argued that there isn't anything inherently bad about using physical conditions like this in these ways (they are interesting and dramatic). I think it is very paternalistic for people to say it should only be handled this way or that way. As I explained I have a disability myself. I like when creators aren't afraid to write frankly about them, to explore them in interesting ways, and to not worry about being misperceived (if there is malice behind it, then that is different, but it should be okay for people to explore these tropes and for us to form a judgement about their intent based on the whole work or the whole setting)