D&D 5E Don't Throw 5e Away Because of Hasbro

[TheSword]

Ok. Agree to disagree. Level Up alone proves you wrong as far as I'm concerned. I applaud them deciding not to change the game when 5.5 came out. Instead they've just been getting better and better.

That’s good. Doesn’t change my point or my prediction.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That’s good. Doesn’t change my point or my prediction.

Nor does it make it any more than your subjective opinion, and a rather bleak one at that IMO.

 

[Scribe]

I strongly object to the binary you just presented that you have to "modernize" to match with 5.5 or become irrelevant.

If D&D remains as popular in the public eye, and Wizards continues to make updates that diverge from 5.0, then it would be silly to suggest that 3pp won't move to 5.5 design choices.

 

[SteveC]

It's interesting to dip into this discussion. I guess I do have a dog in the hunt to discuss the MM, as I also have the A5E Monster Book (I support people in the industry a ton). I find it easy to use and reference but I haven't run a game with it yet, so my experience is at a level of "Oh, this looks good!" For the new 5.5E MM, I think someone had a little too much experience with Excel, as all of the creatures have blocks that look like they came from an Excel sheet. And 95% of them aren't used since few monsters have any saves. I find the new stat blocks okay but too blocky.

I'm looking at this discussion as a whole, and it's pretty wild. I did not have "Support for the Pinkertons" on my 2025 BINGO card. What I do find interesting is how quickly we're moving on from the WotC issues of the past couple of years.

But I think the biggest issue for me is how we're moving on from the whole 50th Anniversary in general, so I wonder if support for 5.5E has sort of crested. I know the last season of Stranger Things will be out, but the media blitz for the game seems to have ebbed, other than occasional missteps by WotC. I'm thinking about how soon Project Sigil is going to fully debut and if that will bring in large numbers of new players to the game. I think things might have gone better if it went into use while the hype about the 50th anniversary was going strong.

I hate to say it, but I suspect that 5.5E adjacent games seem to be ebbing as well. I guess I'm trying to see what the next hot thing in gaming is going to be, and not really seeing it. It sounds to me like interest in gaming, in general, is stalling a bit. But I suspect people will disagree with that assessment, and I'd like to disagree with it on my own.

 

[AlViking]

It's interesting to dip into this discussion. I guess I do have a dog in the hunt to discuss the MM, as I also have the A5E Monster Book (I support people in the industry a ton). I find it easy to use and reference but I haven't run a game with it yet, so my experience is at a level of "Oh, this looks good!" For the new 5.5E MM, I think someone had a little too much experience with Excel, as all of the creatures have blocks that look like they came from an Excel sheet. And 95% of them aren't used since few monsters have any saves. I find the new stat blocks okay but too blocky.

I'm looking at this discussion as a whole, and it's pretty wild. I did not have "Support for the Pinkertons" on my 2025 BINGO card. What I do find interesting is how quickly we're moving on from the WotC issues of the past couple of years.

But I think the biggest issue for me is how we're moving on from the whole 50th Anniversary in general, so I wonder if support for 5.5E has sort of crested. I know the last season of Stranger Things will be out, but the media blitz for the game seems to have ebbed, other than occasional missteps by WotC. I'm thinking about how soon Project Sigil is going to fully debut and if that will bring in large numbers of new players to the game. I think things might have gone better if it went into use while the hype about the 50th anniversary was going strong.

I hate to say it, but I suspect that 5.5E adjacent games seem to be ebbing as well. I guess I'm trying to see what the next hot thing in gaming is going to be, and not really seeing it. It sounds to me like interest in gaming, in general, is stalling a bit. But I suspect people will disagree with that assessment, and I'd like to disagree with it on my own.

I don't think we'll know if the 2024 revision is ebbing for a couple of years. But what we do know is that it's already selling better than expected and quickly sold more than they did in the first three years of the 2014 version. I think it's a little premature to be prepping a eulogy for the game whether published by wizards or third party products.

As far as those third party products needing to change to keep up I guess some that have character classes and subclasses could need some work but not sure about anything else.

 

[SteveC]

I don't think we'll know if the 2024 revision is ebbing for a couple of years. But what we do know is that it's already selling better than expected and quickly sold more than they did in the first three years of the 2014 version. I think it's a little premature to be prepping a eulogy for the game whether published by wizards or third party products.

Oh, to be sure! I remember back to the early 5E days when it was truly thought of as a "keeping the lights on" edition. 5.5E definitely sold a lot of PHBs at launch. And as you say, we won't really know for the next couple of years. I think the big thing that could very likely prove me very, very wrong is what happens with Sigil, the VTT. We'll see.

I suppose we'll have to see what the next series of books, and especially the new Starter Set, do. What I do see is that there was a moment where D&D was being discussed by media that my dad would have read, and that is over. Will Stranger Things bring it back into the mainstream? Don't know. All I know is as much as I like the idea of D&D pinball, it's unlikely to bring new players in. Maybe WotC has some marketing plans that will bring lots of new people into the game. But I'm suspecting that we've hit that crest. I hereby pledge to come back about a year from now for a mea culpa if I'm wrong. And I suspect that the success of Sigil will be a huge part of that if it happens.

 

[Imaro]

Oh, to be sure! I remember back to the early 5E days when it was truly thought of as a "keeping the lights on" edition. 5.5E definitely sold a lot of PHBs at launch. And as you say, we won't really know for the next couple of years. I think the big thing that could very likely prove me very, very wrong is what happens with Sigil, the VTT. We'll see.

I suppose we'll have to see what the next series of books, and especially the new Starter Set, do. What I do see is that there was a moment where D&D was being discussed by media that my dad would have read, and that is over. Will Stranger Things bring it back into the mainstream? Don't know. All I know is as much as I like the idea of D&D pinball, it's unlikely to bring new players in. Maybe WotC has some marketing plans that will bring lots of new people into the game. But I'm suspecting that we've hit that crest. I hereby pledge to come back about a year from now for a mea culpa if I'm wrong. And I suspect that the success of Sigil will be a huge part of that if it happens.

Im just not seeing this...didnt the NY Times do multiple articles on D&D at the end of December... there was a Time Magazine Special Edition done on D&D I just picked up today...Polygon just did some good and not so good articles on D&D... The D&D episode for Secret Level on Prime dropped recently, Vox Machina is still going strong, WotC is releasing regular videos for their new corebooks and mods are dropping for Baldurs Gate...what type of articles or representation do you feel is missing?

 

[SlyFlourish]

That’s good. Doesn’t change my point or my prediction.

What is your specific prediction? What measurable thing will happen by when?

 

[SlyFlourish]

If D&D remains as popular in the public eye, and Wizards continues to make updates that diverge from 5.0, then it would be silly to suggest that 3pp won't move to 5.5 design choices.

Some already are but I don’t know if they need to. Look how much other 5e publishers diverged from D&D 2014 like A5E, Kobold Press, and MCDM. There is a ton of variation in monster design and it’s awesome.

 

[SlyFlourish]

It's interesting to dip into this discussion. I guess I do have a dog in the hunt to discuss the MM, as I also have the A5E Monster Book (I support people in the industry a ton). I find it easy to use and reference but I haven't run a game with it yet, so my experience is at a level of "Oh, this looks good!" For the new 5.5E MM, I think someone had a little too much experience with Excel, as all of the creatures have blocks that look like they came from an Excel sheet. And 95% of them aren't used since few monsters have any saves. I find the new stat blocks okay but too blocky.

I'm looking at this discussion as a whole, and it's pretty wild. I did not have "Support for the Pinkertons" on my 2025 BINGO card. What I do find interesting is how quickly we're moving on from the WotC issues of the past couple of years.

But I think the biggest issue for me is how we're moving on from the whole 50th Anniversary in general, so I wonder if support for 5.5E has sort of crested. I know the last season of Stranger Things will be out, but the media blitz for the game seems to have ebbed, other than occasional missteps by WotC. I'm thinking about how soon Project Sigil is going to fully debut and if that will bring in large numbers of new players to the game. I think things might have gone better if it went into use while the hype about the 50th anniversary was going strong.

I hate to say it, but I suspect that 5.5E adjacent games seem to be ebbing as well. I guess I'm trying to see what the next hot thing in gaming is going to be, and not really seeing it. It sounds to me like interest in gaming, in general, is stalling a bit. But I suspect people will disagree with that assessment, and I'd like to disagree with it on my own.

I’m at PAGE in Philadelphia this week and Shadowdark is everywhere.