D&D General Why grognards still matter

[nevin]

However, the issue with the "big tent" franchises is that people who were part of the in-group dislike what's going on, leave the tent, and then sit outside the tent and loudly criticize the tent for all to hear. I've been through so many "X left me behind, woe is me" tales I instinctively recoil at them. Its okay for a property to no longer be your bag. But it seems a lot of people who supposed leave can't let go, so they hang around badmouthing the Ex even though they totally blocked them and are perfectly happy seeing other people.

LMAO......Even in 1970 when I was 11 25-35 year old gamers bought most of the game's at the game stores. I saved for 6 months to buy my DMG after my parents got me the players handbook for christmas. For many many years most of the tables I played at were younger kids who's older brother had all the books or games and we'd borrow them and play. The internet has confused young people today. They may drive the enthusiasm. Our older pocketbooks pay the developers.

 

[nevin]

To be fair, D&D players hate nothing more than any other version of D&D that isn't their current go-to.

Let me correct that. D&D players on internet forums. (the rest of the world usually doesn't care)

 

[Remathilis]

Let me correct that. D&D players on internet forums. (the rest of the world usually doesn't care)

Nah, there were AD&D 1e players that scorned 2e players long before the internet was a thing. They did it game stores, the letter page of hobby magazines, and gaming clubs. The internet just created a megaphone and an echo chamber big enough to make people think their opinion is either the silent majority or the lone voice of sanity.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

If grogs did not matter, we would not have Greyhawk in the dmg nor the D&D cartoon art and references/characters.

In terms of spending, I went from a second hand buying borrowing high school kid to a professional with some gray in my beard buying most of the books, multiple copies of core and 1000s in minis…1000s.

Other big spenders skew older too. If the older players are only X percent but spend 20 times a younger player spends…yeah they matter to a company.

WOTC has a fine line to walk…they want a new generation but they want to retain the whales. No company totally disregards big revenue now for a chance at bigger later if they can get it all.

My whole group spends and if we are turned
Off enough it’s not like they lose 6 typical players over the next 5 years…it’s probably quite a few times that.

As to the culture and preferences, there is no doubt they listed to part of an older sample in making 5e. Some of their consultants were in the OSR sphere as well.

So for economic and other reasons, grogs have some importance. I suspect they helped organize and ramp up interest in 5e too.

At some point though there is a transition. They have critical mass for a bigger shift in aesthetics tone and so forth due to the diminishing numbers of mega grogs.

We are getting there…I am pretty iffy about 5.5 personally. I don’t hate all of it. I hate some of it and am indifferent to a lot (but the art is good!)

 

[nevin]

Nah, there were AD&D 1e players that scorned 2e players long before the internet was a thing. They did it game stores, the letter page of hobby magazines, and gaming clubs. The internet just created a megaphone and an echo chamber big enough to make people think their opinion is either the silent majority or the lone voice of sanity.

yeah in the magazines, at the cons and the old farts who hung out at the game stores every night to play. That was the equivilant of the internet of gamers back then. They were still the minority but often the white whales of the industry back then. It wasn't different then, except that they were all in thier own seperate ponds instead of the ocean of the internet. I was a military brat and saw it in many places. It was the same everywhere.

Edit: though some of the magazines made bigger pools.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I’ve been RPing for a long, long time. Since the late 90s. I bought one book: phb 3.5.

If purchasing power is the only thing that matters to the hobby, I practically don’t exist.

I would not be a master grognard without pointing out in a grognard thread that the late 90s is not a "long, long time."

 

[Mercurius]

My question would be "Why does it matter to someone that they matter?"

I find it to be psychologically unhealthy if a person is all that concerned about "mattering" to a company, organization, or hobby. Because that person is spending time trying to get the attention of an inanimate thing that doesn't see individuals at all.

People will be much happier in their lives if they only concern themselves with the things they can control (like their table and their game) and have the wisdom to let go of the things they can't (like what a corporation like Hasbro chooses to do.)

Yeah, that doesn't really relate to what I was getting at. At all. I think you're reading too much into what I was saying, but thanks for the life lessons.

 

[nevin]

We are getting there…I am pretty iffy about 5.5 personally. I don’t hate all of it. I hate some of it and am indifferent to a lot (but the art is good!)

See I just roll with it and ignore the stuff I don't like. IF I have to go to a new edition because of players I just make table rules and magic items to fix what I don't like. Life's too short to fight about it. I just want to play or run a game.

 

[Clint_L]

To be fair, D&D players hate nothing more than any other version of D&D that isn't their current go-to.

You’re obviously being intentionally hyperbolic, but not without some truth. A loud segment of fans, in every pastime, seem to look for reasons to go tribal and hate on other factions of their own pastime. I’ve never understood it. It seems really exhausting to focus on what you don’t like rather than on what you do.

Like, 4e was not my favourite version of D&D for a variety of personal reasons, but surely I have a lot more in common with a passionate 4e fan than I do with most other people.

And surely I have a lot in common with young players, even if our specific tastes are a bit different.

 

[Remathilis]

You’re obviously being intentionally hyperbolic, but not without some truth. A loud segment of fans, in every pastime, seem to look for reasons to go tribal and hate on other factions of their own pastime. I’ve never understood it. It seems really exhausting to focus on what you don’t like rather than on what you do.

Like, 4e was not my favourite version of D&D for a variety of personal reasons, but surely I have a lot more in common with a passionate 4e fan than I do with most other people.

I don't wonder if that's something stuck in our monkey or lizard brain space that seeks the protection of a larger group, but worries about fighting for a share of resources and thus seeks to find likeminded factions to ensure survival against other members of the group. IDK, not a social scientist.