D&D General Sandbox and/or/vs Linear campaigns

[Umbran]

Now you're threatening to report me?
Thank you for your magnanimous largess in not doing so.

Mod Note:
Actually, you've gotten reported five times tonight, by five different people, for five different posts, across a couple of threads.

It is time to ask yourself if the pattern of behavior you are engaged in is going to serve you particularly well. If not, maybe you want to adjust it before something more than red-text advice is applied.

 

[KYRON45]

It does appeal to many. Some D&D games can take six hours just to go shopping in a city, for example. Some people love Slice of Life stuff like this.

This what makes the game great. Choosing the style of play you like.

 

[el-remmen]

To me a sandbox means more than "you can do it in any order." Instead, characters having a meaningful in-game influence on the direction of their adventures within limits set by the DM which can be relatively narrow but also potentially global/planar.

Yes, you can use pre-published or other prepped material in sandbox and it still be a sandbox. I might say, when I first prep an area, "The Crypts of Istaris (which are detailed in the adventure of the same name in Dungeon #9) can be found outside the city of X in the kingdom of Y." If the PCs ever go there, I can drop some potential hooks, but I don't have to prep it or even do more than a skim to judge potential usefulness in order to place it there. Once they express their plans to go there, I begin to prep. But I don't feel like I have wasted time if they don't, because I haven't.

Then again, today the PCs just flatly refused a hook for something I did take a lot of time prepping (even painted a mini!), but I am not mad. Their choice made sense. . . and I have to respect that. And that material will still be useful (if different with the passage of time) should the PCs end up going there later on.

 

[Bedrockgames]

To me a sandbox means more than "you can do it in any order." Instead, characters having a meaningful in-game influence on the direction of their adventures within limits set by the DM which can be relatively narrow but also potentially global/planar.

Yes, you can use pre-published or other prepped material in sandbox and it still be a sandbox. I might say, when I first prep an area, "The Crypts of Istaris (which are detailed in the adventure of the same name in Dungeon #9) can be found outside the city of X in the kingdom of Y." If the PCs ever go there, I can drop some potential hooks, but I don't have to prep it or even more than do a skim to judge potential usefulness to place it. One they express their plans to go there, I begin to prep. But I do feel like I have wasted time if they don't, because I haven't.

Then again, today the PCs just flatly refused a hook for something I did take a lot of time prepping (even painted a mini!), but I am not mad. Their choice made sense. . . and I have to respect that. And that material will still be useful (if different with the passage of time) should the PCs end up going there later on.

Yeah. Not being precious about your prepped material is I think an important trait to develop for GMing sandboxes. What I make as a GM isn’t about me, it is there to add to the players ability to choose in the setting. If you are running a sandbox with the right intentions you aren’t trying to steer them or hoping they go somewhere specific or make a specific choice: you are genuinely curious about where they will choose to go

 

[Lanefan]

A game where PCs get to just wander to and fro with no regard for any kind of plot or organized…anything of any kind is not appealing to me.

To me it just seems disjointed and chaotic.
Seems like a lot of people enjoy this type of game.

As long as there's adventures to be found/had in their to-and-fro wanderings, sounds fine to me.

 

[mamba]

If I was talking about a game I would say it's name.

I used Dolmenwood as an example for a sandbox setting, not because I assumed you were referring to it

Different then a linear game, yes.

also different than a sandbox

No, locking in even one detail makes it Linear.

how so, one detail cannot make anything linear, even multiple details do not make something necessarily linear

 

[el-remmen]

you aren’t trying to steer them or hoping they go somewhere specific or make a specific choice: you are genuinely curious about where they will choose to go

I don't try to steer them, but I can't help but sometimes hope they make a specific choice. But do love when I harbor that hope and what they end up choosing to do instead turns out to be better.

 

[bloodtide]

Yeah. Not being precious about your prepped material is I think an important trait to develop for GMing sandboxes. What I make as a GM isn’t about me, it is there to add to the players ability to choose in the setting. If you are running a sandbox with the right intentions you aren’t trying to steer them or hoping they go somewhere specific or make a specific choice: you are genuinely curious about where they will choose to go

This is true, but goes way beyond just Linear or Sandbox.

The Classic Traditional DM creates Encounters for the players to have. Quite often ones with very specific flavors. A spooky encounter, for example.

The Modern Player-DM wants to sit back and do as little as possible while the players lead the game and do most of the work, only doing what the players tell them to do.

how so, one detail cannot make anything linear, even multiple details do not make something necessarily linear

It starts the slope. Details drain away the sand.

If the detail is player provided, the sandbox illusion will cover its negative effects....but a DM detail is the slippery slope to a Linear game.

The players are looking for a magic sword and in a Sandbox game it can be anywhere. The DM-player has not put the sword anywhere to find. So the players are free to do whatever random things they want to do to find the sword. And in the sandbox, whatever they do is on the path to find the sword. The DM-player simply creates the path to the sword right in front of the characters, as per the players wishes.

Once the DM says "the sword is in the Dark Tower", this drains away some sand. Now the characters HAVE to go to the dark tower...they are Forced into a Linear Action. And they loose more freedom with every detail.

 

[Reynard]

No, locking in even one detail makes it Linear.

This is, to me, so silly a position that it makes it impossible to take seriously.

 

[bloodtide]

This is, to me, so silly a position that it makes it impossible to take seriously.

Why? It is how Linear Games work.

Like I said, a Pure Sandbox is just chaos. The players simply do random things as the DM-player says "yes" can creates the world right in front of the characters.

That is why few sandbox games are pure. As soon as a play sets a goal and detail is added to the game...it becomes more Linear.

The treasure is at location Q2, so the characters must go to location Q2 to get the treasure....that is a Linear Action.