DM seeking advice

[Moving Pictures]

The obvious answer and maybe the best, is to have a quiet friendly face to face about it away from the game. He might not realise how disruptive he is being.

He's not being disruptive....

So you might want to stop here quick and back down from the "reckless idea". It is reckless to you...not him.

Example: first level party has ingeniously broken into a crypt that from a story/plot dynamic wasn't supposed to be. OK, bonus points. The crypt was guarded by a pair of goblin super-warrior skeletons, five-die creatures with good armour and a special attack (cone of fear, 1/day).

I run a system where creatures have 'body points' - get into body points, you are into broken bones, and liable to be incapacitated.

After running into these creatures, and being beaten unconscious, the player had his rogue -at one fatigue - engage one of these skeletal things, even though two other PCs at full hit points had the situation under control.

Again.....you should let the player do such things and not just shut them down. When they say "I want to sneak past the guard" don't be so fast to leap to "the guard is the demigod of guards and will see you".

I don't DM that way, and frankly, it's a bit inappropriate of you to assume that I do.

 

[Theory of Games]

So. I came out of a 25-year retirement a few months back, started a group of 2e-based homebrew.
I have a player - mature (middle-aged) who says he's played before 20-odd years ago. He's playing a rogue, impulsively. The problem is that the impulsiveness is .... causing issues.
It's not malicious.... but the player is making decisions that are a bit reckless. Not recognizing when it's time to bail and let the tanks do tanky things. Not understanding the powers and limits of stealth. Also not recognizing subtle role-playing stuff, like an NPC asking for discretion - and then the rogue asking the NPC for papers or documents to connect the party to the NPC.

I'm kinda thinking it's time to ... do something, but I dunno what.

Welcome back to the hobby!

Like most are saying: if he's playing crazy, crazy has crazy consequences.

If he's breaking rules, I'd politely point out how the rule is written and then let the group can decide what works best.

But if he's playing within the parameters you established with Session 0, let him have his fun. Denying him his agency to RP his PC however he likes is wrong.

Just a question: Did you have a Session Zero where you explained what you expect from players in terms of character behavior?

 

[Koloth]

Congrats to both of you for resuming your RPG playing. Possible that his play style is how his games went those 20+ years ago. Or at least how he remembers them going. A lot of my early RPG games were a bit fast and loose. Maybe his were as well.

Even if you don't want to kill the character, you could have repairing him be somewhat costly. When the other players start grousing about 80% of the last treasure haul being used to fix up the rogue and replace his stuff because Rogue 1 went one on one with a fully activated ogre barbarian and got his lunch handed to him, the player might start playing a bit more conservative.

Or he becomes a plot device. "Oh crap, what did that rogue get us into this time?" I have played several campaigns with 'plot device' characters. Some were great fun. A few, not so much. If this is where it goes, as a GM, have Plans B-Q lined up and ready to go as no telling which path you will wind up on, but it probably won't be scheduled plot path.

 

[Moving Pictures]

Just a question: Did you have a Session Zero where you explained what you expect from players in terms of character behavior?

Yes.
The issue isn't the case of "player being disruptive," so much as I think the player has a different idea of the skills/capacities of a first-level rogue can do. He's playing like it's a fifth-level, if that makes sense.

Congrats to both of you for resuming your RPG playing. Possible that his play style is how his games went those 20+ years ago. Or at least how he remembers them going. A lot of my early RPG games were a bit fast and loose. Maybe his were as well.

I think there's a bit of "I've been playing videogames where repercussions are minimal and I get six lives" is taking place.

Or he becomes a plot device. "Oh crap, what did that rogue get us into this time?" I have played several campaigns with 'plot device' characters. Some were great fun. A few, not so much. If this is where it goes, as a GM, have Plans B-Q lined up and ready to go as no telling which path you will wind up on, but it probably won't be scheduled plot path.

It's already started to go that way.

Ultimately, I suspect there may be a brutal lesson....

 

[bloodtide]

Example: first level party has ingeniously broken into a crypt that from a story/plot dynamic wasn't supposed to be. OK, bonus points. The crypt was guarded by a pair of goblin super-warrior skeletons, five-die creatures with good armour and a special attack (cone of fear, 1/day).

After running into these creatures, and being beaten unconscious, the player had his rogue -at one fatigue - engage one of these skeletal things, even though two other PCs at full hit points had the situation under control.

So, good example.

I'd guess this encounter make good sense to you. Old crypt, forbidden dark arts, and guardian goblin super warrior skeletons. Ok, sounds like a great encounter for SOME of your players.

So, even if the combat for only the "tank" characters only takes 15 minutes, what would you have the stealthily player do: just sit there? Now that would be fine...only...if you gave that stealthily player an equal 'sneaky encounter of the same length, where the players of the tank(s) characters just had to sit there.

This is why I say make more well rounded encounters. Skeleton tank bait is great.....but also add like a shadow worg that jumps around hiding in shadows. See how that gives the player something to do.

I don't DM that way, and frankly, it's a bit inappropriate of you to assume that I do.

I can only go by what you type.

Yes.
The issue isn't the case of "player being disruptive," so much as I think the player has a different idea of the skills/capacities of a first-level rogue can do. He's playing like it's a fifth-level, if that makes sense.

So, just me, but I smack this type of player down hard....all the way to character death and beyond. A low level character tries to sneak past a lich and is killed...the end, for example.

But, also, you should make sure that....well, roughly 75% of anything can can be done is possible for the rogue character. They should be able to sneak past, or sneak attack, or steal from nearly everything all the time. Make sure you don't have the 1st level character in a 5th level world. Even much of that 25% should be doable with a high roll...

 

[Piperken]

So. I came out of a 25-year retirement a few months back, started a group of 2e-based homebrew.

Wibs! Thank you for providing an opportunity for others to play!

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

Stop fudging to save them? Reckless behavior from a rogue is a quick death sentence in 2e. The game itself should be able to handle this one.

"I've sent boys younger than you to the gas chamber. I didn't want to do it; I felt I... owed it to them."

Someone chooses to go out an airlock without benefit of vacc suit, you owe it to them to ask what's a good time to get together with you to make their new character.

 

[Moving Pictures]

So, good example.

I'd guess this encounter make good sense to you. Old crypt, forbidden dark arts, and guardian goblin super warrior skeletons. Ok, sounds like a great encounter for SOME of your players.

Main entry room had a dais with a carefully laid-out warg skeleton on it. Rogue smashed the skull of the warg "so it doesn't animate." That was the totality of the rogue's actions.

No "search for stuff" undertaken.

So, even if the combat for only the "tank" characters only takes 15 minutes, what would you have the stealthily player do: just sit there? Now that would be fine...only...if you gave that stealthily player an equal 'sneaky encounter of the same length, where the players of the tank(s) characters just had to sit there.

This has happened, and is happening. And it's the tank that is now actually doing the "let's make contact with the less-savoury" work that the rogue ought to be doing.

But, also, you should make sure that....well, roughly 75% of anything can can be done is possible for the rogue character. They should be able to sneak past, or sneak attack, or steal from nearly everything all the time. Make sure you don't have the 1st level character in a 5th level world. Even much of that 25% should be doable with a high roll...

75 per cent achievement is .... not first level.

 

[bloodtide]

Main entry room had a dais with a carefully laid-out warg skeleton on it. Rogue smashed the skull of the warg "so it doesn't animate." That was the totality of the rogue's actions.

No "search for stuff" undertaken.

So it would seem your not giving the rogue character much to do? Even more you don't give the rogue character anything equal to combat for the tank.

Again, if you expect the player of the rogue to just sit there while you do 20 minutes of combat for the tank....then you should do 20 minutes of sneaky/skilled/roguish content where the player of the tank just sits there. Fair is fair.

This has happened, and is happening. And it's the tank that is now actually doing the "let's make contact with the less-savoury" work that the rogue ought to be doing.

Not sure what you mean here? Are you saying you want the rogue to be the 'face' of the group and do social contact?

75 per cent achievement is .... not first level.

So, this might be a big disconnect between you and the player.

So, are you thinking a 1st level rogue is a flop and fool that is unable to to nearly anything? So because the rogue is low level they can't really sneak past ANYONE yet....they need to wait for like 5th level to sneak past even a lowly goblin guard.

A 1st level rouge should be able to use all their skills vs most of their foes. Again, I would compare it to the tank....do you feel the should miss 75% of the time? Fail in combat 75% of the time? When the player of the tank rolls a 19, do you say "sorry at 1st level you trip on your own feet and miss"

Even at first level, sure there should be a couple foes the rogue can't sneak past...and maybe a couple where they would need a 20. But again....to be fair, are you having the tank fight such foes? Do you have the tank character fight a foe they can't hurt or can't hit? Or fight a foe that can only be hit on a 20 roll?

You might want to try a more fair and balanced game.

 

[DEFCON 1]

If a new player doesn't know what the power level of a 1st level character is... then just sit down with them 30 minutes before the session and explain the difficulties of the various options a character might try to accomplish. Especially if there are dice checks that go into exactly what the odds are for most actions.

Or if you don't wish to meet before a session... then just tell the Rogue the odds of what they are trying to do when they state what they are trying to do. Give them the game information they need to make informed game choices. That way they can decide to change their mind on things they originally suggested before you narrate the results.