D&D General Ben Riggs interviews Fred Hicks and Cam Banks, then shares WotC sales data.

[MockingBird]

Not an expert here so give me grace. I wonder if the delve format just suffered from 4es not so great adventures? Did the format get tossed out with the bath water when a new edition appeared?

 

[Lanefan]

I, for one, liked the Delve format for what it was. The main issue was that it took up a lot of space, one or two pages per encounter, compared to something like: "Dire apes, 35 hp each, Monster Manual page 62".

I think Wizards might have become a little too enamored with it. Looking at Eyes of the Lich Queen which used the format, it is used in every encounter. Eyes spends 70+ pages (out of 128) on its encounter set-pieces, and most of them are not worth that space. Save it for designing complex encounters with lots of interesting terrain.

Or (numbers made up as I can't be arsed to haul out the MM right now):

"Dire apes (3), HD 5, att. 2 (fist-fist), dmg. 2d6-2d6, SA rend for 3d8 if both fists hit same target in same round, SD fearless, SQ strength 18, HP 35 each"

There. Two lines of text and now I don't have to reference the MM to run 'em.

 

[liteberer]

What I don't understand is what is the business case for WOTC to come out with an innovative, real 6e? What they are looking to build is a subscriber base for D&DB. An iteration like 5.5 makes this possible. You don't have to use it if you don't want to but you can stay subscribed. And, as they build out new "books" the pressure mounts to buy them so you have new options. As long as you stay subscribed they win.

They can leave any true innovation to 3rd parties and then embrace and extend through their 3rd party program. Ghostfire, Free League, etc. gain the imprimatur of being "D&D Beyond Approved". I think this is in the early stages. They're trying to create the "D&D App Store".

The real model is the Apple Iphone.

 

[Zardnaar]

What I don't understand is what is the business case for WOTC to come out with an innovative, real 6e? What they are looking to build is a subscriber base for D&DB. An iteration like 5.5 makes this possible. You don't have to use it if you don't want to but you can stay subscribed. And, as they build out new "books" the pressure mounts to buy them so you have new options. As long as you stay subscribed they win.

They can leave any true innovation to 3rd parties and then embrace and extend through their 3rd party program. Ghostfire, Free League, etc. gain the imprimatur of being "D&D Beyond Approved". I think this is in the early stages. They're trying to create the "D&D App Store".

The real model is the Apple Iphone.

This.

Eventually people get sick of a game and drift off.

No World of Warcraft 2.

D&D requires more effort so I expect peopke/DMs to drift off faster.

 

[Parmandur]

What I don't understand is what is the business case for WOTC to come out with an innovative, real 6e? What they are looking to build is a subscriber base for D&DB. An iteration like 5.5 makes this possible. You don't have to use it if you don't want to but you can stay subscribed. And, as they build out new "books" the pressure mounts to buy them so you have new options. As long as you stay subscribed they win.

They can leave any true innovation to 3rd parties and then embrace and extend through their 3rd party program. Ghostfire, Free League, etc. gain the imprimatur of being "D&D Beyond Approved". I think this is in the early stages. They're trying to create the "D&D App Store".

The real model is the Apple Iphone.

Or, well, Monopoly, or Clue, or Risk...

 

[liteberer]

This.

Eventually people get sick of a game and drift off.

No World of Warcraft 2.

D&D requires more effort so I expect peopke/DMs to drift off faster.

When is the last time Apple came out with a truly innovative Iphone? Just iterate on aesthetics and leave creativity to others.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

I, for one, liked the Delve format for what it was. The main issue was that it took up a lot of space, one or two pages per encounter, compared to something like: "Dire apes, 35 hp each, Monster Manual page 62".

I think Wizards might have become a little too enamored with it. Looking at Eyes of the Lich Queen which used the format, it is used in every encounter. Eyes spends 70+ pages (out of 128) on its encounter set-pieces, and most of them are not worth that space. Save it for designing complex encounters with lots of interesting terrain.

This.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I’m not surprised sales were bad in 2013. 4e had essentially been dead for several years by then, and 5e was still in the playtesting phase. There were no new, readily available D&D products to buy in 2013. The playtest era adventures were mainly for organised play or con exclusives etc.

Yeah.

Frankly, the fact that DDI + RPG sales were collectively over $7M when they hadn't published a single page of 4e content for over a year and had been ramping up the replacement for nearly two? That's goddamned impressive.

But of course, trawling for any data that can be spindled, folded, or mutilated to support the going narrative will never, ever end. We cannot escape the edition war. It is with us forever.

 

[Reynard]

Be careful with the "us" and "we" here - I too would love to see a new D&D edition, but I suspect the new version I'd like to see would be light-years different from the new version you'd like to see.

I'm not sure what your point is. We all know as a first principal that we would like different things from a new edition. It's self evident.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah.

Frankly, the fact that DDI + RPG sales were collectively over $7M when they hadn't published a single page of 4e content for over a year and had been ramping up the replacement for nearly two? That's goddamned impressive.

But of course, trawling for any data that can be spindled, folded, or mutilated to support the going narrative will never, ever end. We cannot escape the edition war. It is with us forever.

They were publishing AD&D and OD&D.

Its about half what Paizo was doing 2012+.