D&D 5E (2024) Circle Casting is gonna break a lot of games

[Charlaquin]

What? Those are the rules I've been talking about. Either 1) You have Concentration on one spell maintained by multiple casters, in which case the cost of doing that is it prevents those casters from using other Concentration spells or 2) You have your primary caster break Concentration to cast a second Concentration spell, while a secondary caster maintains the first one. In which case, all you're doing is shifting Concentration to another caster who can't use a Concentration spell themselves (and who might be better able to maintain Concentration if they take a hit), but that's hardly game-breaking. It's two Concentration spells going at the same time, but it's also two casters maintaining Concentration, so no different than if each caster had cast their own spell.

Number of characters concentrating is still equal to number of spells being concentrated on, yes. However, the characters doing the concentrating don’t need to be able to actually cast the spell they’re concentrating on, they just need to have the spellcasting or pact magic feature. This means for the cost of a 1-level dip in any casting class, all of your otherwise Martial characters can also hold concentration on spells, so you could for example Haste all of your martials and have them each hold the concentration for their own instance of Haste, and you’d still have your own concentration slot available for something else.

Honestly, I’m very surprised that circle casting doesn’t require secondary casters to actually be able to cast the spell they’re helping with. That seems like it would have been a much more salient requirement than just having the Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature.

 

[Thommy H-H]

An eldritch knight can't normally concentration on a spirit guardians or blade barrier spell
A first level caster can't normally concentrate on a 5th level spell
A caster out of spell slots can't normally concentrate on any spell.

All of these things allow the main caster to cast another concentration spell

these are not insignificant things that you keep glossing over.

I didn't say they weren't significant - I said they don't break anything. There are lots of ways casters can get hold of spells they normally don't have access to (like a spell scroll), or replenish spell slots via magic items or class features, and it doesn't cause the underlying balance of an encounter to fall apart. It's a useful option, nothing more.

 

[BenjaminPey]

Not insignificant is good. Otherwise, it would be a waste of space. And "not insignificant" is not game breaking. It's cool that's the archmage can use his brutish henchmen to maintain concentration on his phantasmal killer. It could create surprises, open up new avenues. Ça crée du jeu, as we would say in french.

 

[Thommy H-H]

Number of characters concentrating is still equal to number of spells being concentrated on, yes. However, the characters doing the concentrating don’t need to be able to actually cast the spell they’re concentrating on, they just need to have the spellcasting or pact magic feature. This means for the cost of a 1-level dip in any casting class, all of your otherwise Martial characters can also hold concentration on spells, so you could for example Haste all of your martials and have them each hold the concentration for their own instance of Haste, and you’d still have your own concentration slot available for something else.

Same as if you gave them all spell scrolls of Haste. Which would be costly, of course! But is still within the framework of the game's standard resources. And, honestly, I feel like if everyone has to sacrifice a level in their primary class to pull this off, that's fair enough, isn't it? That in itself is a signifcant investment of resources, and if the whole party was on board with making it happen, I think that's an interesting story.

 

[billd91]

Honestly, I’m very surprised that circle casting doesn’t require secondary casters to actually be able to cast the spell they’re helping with. That seems like it would have been a much more salient requirement than just having the Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature.

That would have offered a much stronger balancing factor. Or requiring it to be on the helper's own spell list would have been less strong, but still offered some restriction (while allowing lowly acolytes to help the high priest of the cult).
But as these rules work now... pretty much anything goes. I've got 5 spell casters in my Thursday night group (2 clerics, wizard, bard, arcane trickster) who can all circle cast with each other's magic. Only the group's barbarian can't participate.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Number of characters concentrating is still equal to number of spells being concentrated on, yes. However, the characters doing the concentrating don’t need to be able to actually cast the spell they’re concentrating on, they just need to have the spellcasting or pact magic feature. This means for the cost of a 1-level dip in any casting class, all of your otherwise Martial characters can also hold concentration on spells, so you could for example Haste all of your martials and have them each hold the concentration for their own instance of Haste, and you’d still have your own concentration slot available for something else.

Honestly, I’m very surprised that circle casting doesn’t require secondary casters to actually be able to cast the spell they’re helping with. That seems like it would have been a much more salient requirement than just having the Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature.

It is a possible fix if you try it and think there is a problem. I honestly do not think it will be that much of a problem and I regard it as a positive contribution to world building.
On the topic of martials concentrating on spells, yes, they are likely to have better con saves, but they are also going to get hit more often. I think it will be a wash.

 

[Bae'zel]

I agree, that’s why my initial suggestion was making an exception for action/bonus action spells. But for longer cast times, multiplying the time required by the number of casters could help make circle casting feel like a bigger undertaking.

One of the best features of the Mythras RPG is how modular the magic system is. You can curate it to cater to a wide variety of magic playstyles, from high magic to more "low" or occult-based.

The dials are built-in, so includes things like increase/decrease casting duration, rarity and value of components, number of ritual members required etc. Like any other "dial" of D&D 5e (eg, changing duration of long rests) I would like to see some other ideas on how to make cicle casting (and rituals) differently tailored.

Hmmm

 

[Sacrosanct]

Same as if you gave them all spell scrolls of Haste. Which would be costly, of course! But is still within the framework of the game's standard resources. And, honestly, I feel like if everyone has to sacrifice a level in their primary class to pull this off, that's fair enough, isn't it? That in itself is a signifcant investment of resources, and if the whole party was on board with making it happen, I think that's an interesting story.

Again, it's not everyone sacrificing a level dip. Most classes already have the feature. No need for a level dip. I'm also not sure what game has unlimited haste spell scrolls laying around. With this rule:

• the caster who is out of spell slots is now effectively maintaining a spell they wouldn't
• the caster who isn't high enough level is now effectively running a high level spell
• the caster who doesn't have a spell on their list is not effectively running that spell
• one caster can save their spell slots in order to maintain the spell of another caster, which may be a much better spell than they can use their own slots for.

It throws resource management in regards to the typical adventuring day on it's head. The problem is amplified when you factor in the other circle enhancement abilities.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Druid: I like call lighting, but aura of vitality would sure be helpful, but both are concentration.
Warlock: Hey, I've used my 2 slots already. I'll help and maintain call lightning while you go ahead and maintain aura of vitality

Eldritch Knight: Hey cleric, I will maintain spirit guardians for you while you do blade barrier. Deal?

This seems obvious to me how these things (and I'm just using the concentration rule here and not even mentioning the others) dramatically and completely change the encounter. A class like the warlock built around few spells and short rest recharge is now for all intents and purposes, doing spells beyond their limited slots. An eldritch knight with low level spell options is now effectively doing high level spells in addition to their core fighting ability.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Number of characters concentrating is still equal to number of spells being concentrated on, yes. However, the characters doing the concentrating don’t need to be able to actually cast the spell they’re concentrating on, they just need to have the spellcasting or pact magic feature. This means for the cost of a 1-level dip in any casting class, all of your otherwise Martial characters can also hold concentration on spells, so you could for example Haste all of your martials and have them each hold the concentration for their own instance of Haste, and you’d still have your own concentration slot available for something else.

Honestly, I’m very surprised that circle casting doesn’t require secondary casters to actually be able to cast the spell they’re helping with. That seems like it would have been a much more salient requirement than just having the Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature.

Yeah, I think the easiest "fix" is to simply make it so that all secondary casters need to be able to cast the given spell. Heck, then you wouldn't need to limit it to the Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature, and you'd be able to help with spells attained through other means (species and feats, usually) but with no other spells.