D&D 5E (2024) WotC Should Make 5.5E Specific Setting

[Parmandur]

I assume that those two are from Rime of the Frostmaiden? I really need to pick that up sometime. It looks like it does cover some of the missing bits. Although, that does make it somewhat tricky for my Goliath to be in Baldur's Gate. And it does rather nicely dovetail with my point that if I choose something like Goliath, the only background that I really should have is "Someone from REALLY far away with no actual connetions to where ever we happen to be now". PHB races should not always have to be fish out of water characters.

It's perfectly fine to be a fish out of water character. No problems there. But, it should not be the default (or the only) choice for a PHB race.

Yeah, and mentioned in the new books, too. The players book for Faerûn does establish that Goliaths are literally all over the place, though on the margins of major civilization. There really isn't any limit on it, and unlike say 3E there are no demographics for Baldur's Gate suggesting there are certain lacks of a given Species in the population or not. The DMG similarly smoothly transitioned Goliaths into Greyhawk.

 

[Reynard]

. The players book for Faerûn does establish that Goliaths are literally all over the place, though on the margins of major civilization.

I wonder, is this phrasing a way to "incorporate" them without doing any actual work? Seems like it.

Again, the benefit of a setting written for the new core is that you don't have to do any of that. You can just create a world that accommodates and truly integrates all the core species and important non-player beings.

But, no, apparently that is too hard and the only solution is to wedge new species and classes and etc into dusty old settings, even if they make no sense at all.

 

[Yaarel]

Why would you think that I am arguing any differently? I really get the feeling that people are talking completely at cross purposes.

It was the emphasis on the Players Handbook that came across as if it was a canon that required every setting to include all of its species. "Every D&D setting is based on the PHB." "When you look at ... where the PC's are, ... they are pretty much comprised of the PHB races." "The settings are built on the PHB races." Your point that comprising the Players Handbook species doesnt necessarily mean requiring all of them, is taken.

 

[Maxperson]

Thus my confusion. He's not referencing anything I'm actually talking about and his concerns have nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

As far as dragonborn in Candlekeep, again, it's so frustrating talking about this stuff with people who obviously have never actually run these adventures. Yes, you are right, there are a couple of NPC dragonborn in the initial pages. Who are then completely ignored and play absolutely no part in any of the actual adventures. Two Dragonborn NPC's plopped into an adventure with literally over a hundred named NPC's is hardly countering my point is it? My point is, as it has always been, that dragoborn and tieflings, despite being in the PHB, have virtually no presence in the actual settings for D&D. I can name a dozen settlements for any other PHB race in the Sword Coast alone.

Where is a Dragonborn settlement? Goliath settlement? Can you name one? Over ten years, what, about ten AP's set in the Sword Coast and there isn't a single example of where your Dragonborn character might come from. Not a single example of where an Aasimar or other planetouched character might come from. 2024 races? Ok, fair enough. They're new. But, Dragonborn have been in the PHB for over a decade now and we still have ZERO information about how or where they live in the Sword Coast other than a couple of throwaway paragraphs and a tiny number of NPC's.

Again, I have more information about how GRIPPLI live in the Sword Coast than I do Dragonborn.

I think the problem you are having is because they keep giving us lore on the sword coast and further up and down that coast, and now also the Dales. The Dragonborn population is almost entirely centered in one country that hasn't gotten any write-up, and that is the only place where there would be enough Dragonborn to have a settlement of their own. They're still a rare race, so outside of those areas you are only going to see them here and there, like the two in Candlekeep.

 

[Maxperson]

Of course it is. Why would you think that I am arguing any differently?

I really get the feeling that people are talking completely at cross purposes.

My point is that despite a decade of being one of the most popular player options in D&D, we still have zero background for either Tieflings or Dragonborn. So, a putative new setting should incorporate those races into the basic character of the settings. Just like every other PHB setting is the basic character of every other D&D setting. I'm frankly baffled why this is even contentious. This is bog standard about how every single D&D setting has been presented since Greyhawk. Yet I'm getting jumped on like I'm asking people to chew puppies.

How much background are you looking for? The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide talks about Dragonborn, from their family life to their philosophy and religion. It's not a ton of space, but that's par for the course for this edition where lore has been pretty sparse.

 

[mamba]

I wonder, is this phrasing a way to "incorporate" them without doing any actual work? Seems like it.

yeah, it is

Again, the benefit of a setting written for the new core is that you don't have to do any of that. You can just create a world that accommodates and truly integrates all the core species and important non-player beings.

if you feel like they all need to have a specific location they are from, they could also be mixed in like that too

But, no, apparently that is too hard and the only solution is to wedge new species and classes and etc into dusty old settings, even if they make no sense at all.

For the FR, it probably is too much of a retcon to start having nations of whatever species recently popped up. Not sure how you determine whether a species does make sense or not, and is excluding them better than saying 'yeah, they are around, on the outskirts'?

 

[Yaarel]

It is remarkable: Tiefling and Dragonborn are newly prominent species of D&D. They rank in popularity alongside Dwarf. I suspect the Genasi-esque Goliath has already joined their ranks.

Thinking on the dynamics of D&D today, it differs from earlier decades.

D&D continues to remain Human-and-Elf-centric. With the "Half-Elf" merging into the (sometimes charismatic) Elf, I suspect the popularity of the Elf has surpassed the Human.

The Tolkienism of Halfling and Orc still has some currency but is fading into obscurity. I am unsure World of Warcraft is keeping the Orc afloat. The 2024 Orc lacs a distinctive identity. It seems to default into some kind of half-human half ogre. We will see how it develops. (Personally, I like the etymological ogre-orc-orcus association. Playing up both Giant and Shadowfell themes works for Orc.)

The 1e Gnome originated during the early class restrictions as a kind of Dwarf who could be a Magic-User. Even so, reallife folkbeliefs about house sprites keep the Gnome concept buoyant. Yet generally, the Small folk are loosing popularity. Dwarf recategorized to Medium size, while Halfling and Gnome are in decline.

The Awsimar ranks along with but after Halfling, Orc, and Gnome. The UA attempt to merge Awsimar with humanimals Aarakocra and Tabaxi didnt take. As far as I can tell, the popularity of Awsimar is stable, but last of the Players Handbook species. We will see if it gains from being core now.

Regarding a setting for the 2024 Awsimar, Tiefling, and Dragonborn:

Any Humanoid species can produce an individual who is a Tiefling or an Awsimar. These "astrals"(Fiend or Celestial respectively) lack their own native culture. Their culture is whichever they are born into. The 4e Nentir setting developed the Tiefling with their own ancient human culture. But 5e 2024 focuses on the individuals. I feel this is enough of an origin to make sense in any setting that has an Astral Plane.

The Dragonborn originate magically from Dragons who shapeshift their own unhatched Dragons into Humanoids. The Dragonborn can appear in any setting that has Dragons.

These Dragonborn can reproduce. My impression is, these draconic Humanoids got together despite the conflicts among their ancestral Dragons. Thus historically they formed a kind of Pan-Dragon culture that blends the cultural influences from both metallic and chromatic Dragons. Now, if Dragons hatch a new Dragonborn, the newborns grow up in the culture of the Dragon parents, not the Pan-Dragon Dragonborn culture. This Pan-Dragon culture also includes nondragonborn species that immigrated in. Despite the mixed metallic-chromatic ancestry of most Dragonborn, each individual seems to select the traits from only one of their ancestors.

Inferably, Gem Dragonborn exist, but remained with their Gem Dragon parents, and never joined the Pan-Dragon culture.

According to the Players Handbook, the origins of Awsimar, Tiefling, and Dragonborn are terse and versatile. It is easy to reuse the data for almost any setting. Even so, there seems enough data for a setting as-is, with minimal elaboration.

 

[Reynard]

yeah, it is


if you feel like they all need to have a specific location they are from, they could also be mixed in like that too


For the FR, it probably is too much of a retcon to start having nations of whatever species recently popped up. Not sure how you determine whether a species does make sense or not, and is excluding them better than saying 'yeah, they are around, on the outskirts'?

Just to be clear, I am not arguing that you can't integrate dragonborn or tie flings or goliaths or whatever into FR or Eberron.

I am just saying it would be easier and cooler to just build a setting that fundamentally incorporates all those things. I get that people like FR. Great. Yay. But absolutely nothing says we can't make something newer and better.

ENWorld is dominated by GenX fogies. I get it. But folks should really look past their own nostalgia and imagine all the awesome potential D&D still has, if WotC would just embrace evolution like it has for the last 20 years or so.

 

[Yaarel]

The players book for Faerûn does establish that Goliaths are literally all over the place, though on the margins of major civilization.

At least for the Forgotten Realms setting:

This settlement pattern - everywhere but away from Human civilizations - might suggest that the Goliath population preexists the Human population, and the arriving Humans displaced them. If so, the Goliath probably adapted to environmental niches that are too harsh for Human settlements.

 

[Reynard]

At least for the Forgotten Realms setting:

This settlement pattern - everywhere but away from Human civilizations - might suggest that the Goliath population preexists the Human population, and the arriving Humans displaced them. If so, the Goliath probably adapted to environmental niches that are too harsh for Human settlements.

Or it is a way of simply not actually integrating Goliaths into the setting.

These FR books gave WotC an opportunity to make FR a fully current D&D setting snd it sounds like they squandered it. So not only do you not have a new setting, you don't have an old setting that actually reflects D&D today.

I can only imagine the apparently inevitable Dark Sun will be even worse.