D&D 5E (2024) WotC Should Make 5.5E Specific Setting

[billd91]

That doesn't justify doing it for new species either or make it better that gnomes and halflings have no deep connections to the setting.

Regarding Greyhawk, does a species need to have one of their kind be a head of state for them to have deep connections to the setting? Do they need to be the majority or plurality population of a country to have a deep connection?

we want to be able to choose to tangibly be from the place we're adventuring in, to have pre-established ties, dynamics and histories with various factions, organizations and people that will influence our character's choices as they adventure, not everybody wants to be some waif, stray or vagrant from over the horizon, to be the man with no name just passing through with no care for any of the people we encounter, some of us want to be like Gimli, who is excited to visit and grieves when he learns of all his kin and a great dwarven city were felled at Moria, some of us want our character to know and feel the cultural significance when they visit Koom Valley, where my father, my grandmother, my grandmother's father and even his father all fought on those grounds in the great battles against the trolls generation after generation because my people have A History there that goes back more than 15 years.

How much detail does a setting need about a species for there to be a deep connection? Does it make a difference if the setting is largely a gazetteer-style guide like Greyhawk vs a more detailed one? A less defined setting like a gazetteer-based one rather than a more detailed one is going to leave a lot to the DM to define - is it then enough to know that gnomes/halflings live in a general area and they should define the specific community? Or should we expect more from the publisher?

And even in a gazetteer-style setting like the Greyhawk boxed set (1983), we have some detail. Is it enough to know that the Flinty Hills of Greyhawk have significant gnome and halfling populations and that both groups participated in the Hateful Wars that drove goblins and orcs from the Lortmil Mountains? Or that the gnomes of the Kron Hills mobilized to defeat help the Horde of Elemental Evil? Or that some 4000 gnomes live in the Viscounty of Verbobonc, 7000 in the Archclericy of Veluna? How much more do you need? And what kind of detail?

What is it about a setting like Greyhawk that would suggest dwarves and elves are deeply connected while gnomes and halflings are not? Specific heads of state?

 

[Parmandur]

although, if you did make a 'made for 5e' setting, they wouldn't need to keep being that.

Right, but there is no reason they would need to stop being that in a made for 5E Setting. It pure fluff, not necessitated by any rules one way or another.

 

[Parmandur]

Can I take a second to point out that the Ten Towns lore has been recycled three times (Legacy, Rime, and now Adventures in Faerun) and people have griped about that, and yet when they go and change things people gripe about that too?

To be fair, each of those products does have a good deal of different material going on, are separated by over 5 years between releases (or one metric 3.5 lifespan), and any repeated information is to not penalize someone who hadn't bought a given older product?

 

[billd91]

i'm not just talking about the hobbits who are intentionally, specifically out of place (but not totally entirely foreign) to greater middle earth, i'm talking about the whole fellowship, men, dwarves and elves included, and so what if the only other dwarf place turns out to be a goblin infested tomb, moria was still there and was still significant to him as a dwarf, and erebor exists, and i'm sure a dozen more places exist in the expanded universe that i'm not aware of, the point is being a dwarf means something in middle earth, being a man or elf means something in middle earth, you have friends and foes, history, allegiances and grudges, what about that are you not getting?

Why exactly do we believe being dwarven means something in Middle Earth? Because dwarves played notable roles in the foreground - they were protagonists/supporting protagonists for the main narrative - so the world-builder (in this case Tolkien) made sure we had some of that information. Wouldn't the same be true for any PC created for a campaign? Would the DM and player work to ground the PC in specifics that would be relevant to them and give them meaning?

 

[zakael19]

Can I take a second to point out that the Ten Towns lore has been recycled three times (Legacy, Rime, and now Adventures in Faerun) and people have griped about that, and yet when they go and change things people gripe about that too?

I was just pointing out a different product to grab if he didn’t want the adventure!

They do have different maps between them for the settlements and stuff though, worth considering which style you want.

 

[Hussar]

what is the population of the region around Phandelver? Maybe a thousand if you include the goblins? So you have a hundred Dragonborn, and a hundred tieflings, and a hundred aasimar, and a hundred gnomes and a hundred halflings, and a hundred orcs and a hundred elves and a hundred dwarves and a hundred goblins, and then you have no space left for the humans.

You cannot assume every PHB species exists in every location in significant numbers, never mind non-PHB species like goblins, because the total population isn’t big enough for that to make any kind of sense. If we suppose Dragonborn make up 0.1% of the population of Toril, then you would expect to find exactly one in the region of Phandelver. Of course, they are not evenly distributed, so you are more likely to find zero.

Well, there's 25000 people in Neverwinter alone and that's only a few days travel from Phandelver. Leilon is 3000 and that's about the same distance. Triboar is about 2500 and that's a few days to the east. So, within a 100 mile radius from Phandelver, you've got about 35000 people. Suddenly having a hundred dragonborn isn't all that much.

But, now you're getting it. You're right, you cannot assume every PHB species exists in every location because half of the PHB species were never part of the game when most of these settings were written.

 

[Maxperson]

We have effectively banned dragonborn, goliaths, tiefling, warlocks, and possibly sorcerer characters s from having tied to history, diplomacy, and iconics from every official setting.

Why are we banning official PHB options from having setting links?

I have also shown how there are already setting links for Dragonborn in the Forgotten Realms. And I've further shown how to write links to the setting into a background for Dragonborn who are far from their homeland. But I have to ask....

Why should PHB options be guaranteed links, or even existence?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But, now you're getting it. You're right, you cannot assume every PHB species exists in every location because half of the PHB species were never part of the game when most of these settings were written.

Sure, the real world only manages to support one sentient species. Two is fantasy, ten is ridiculous, and fifty (snice most of the species in the Monster Manual are sentient) is D&D. But the only way it works is if you assume that most of those species are very very rare. There isn't room on the planet for each one to have towns and cities.

 

[Maxperson]

we want to be able to choose to tangibly be from the place we're adventuring in, to have pre-established ties, dynamics and histories with various factions, organizations and people that will influence our character's choices as they adventure,

You can have all of that without having a full settlement of your race present thousands of miles from your homeland. Just write it into your background.

 

[Maxperson]

I think he wants the abilty to choose both

1. I am a Dragonborn from a far-away location that no onehere is likely to know about anyway and I and the DM can (and have to) make up stuff.
2. I am a Dragonborn from a community in a location perhaps only a few days or weeks away that people here might have heard of and is well-defined enough that the DM and I can refer to and build on.

He can already have both.