D&D 5E (2024) New Feats, avenues to diversity?

[TorgoTheWhite]

I dunno, I actually felt inspired with the two builds I proposed in this thread and personally I think Cold Caster works better on Open Hand Monk with 3 levels in Winter Walker because, well, you need to have something to use with these penalties.

On another thing, I finally found a good class to pick for the Purple Dragon Rook/Commandant/Boon of bloodshet build combo - Bladesinger Wizard. If only because out of all melee classes this one WILL be bloodied the most. And the image of a nerd beating enemies while bruised and battered is appealing to me.

Purple Commandant is really neat/versatile too because they dabbled in the prerequisite alternatives: EITHER have Purple Rook OR martial wep proficiency.. this is just versatile design to me

 

[eclair~]

Yeah, why would you do this as someone who already gets the abilities!

A Barbarian in tune with nature and animals is an excellent story.
A Rogue-Thief using their communion with animals to help them steal is a wonderful trope without past support in 5e barring a multiclass dip.

I could see a fun way to Paladin this too. Oath of the Ancients tale connects rather well here to expand the story.

Then you make a character who is forced to take suboptimal ASIs, due to 2024's draconic backgrounds mechanic—a mechanic that exists solely so that other players can make Wrong Choices—just to receive very situational abilities that don't synergize with any of your class features or options.

(If you think backgrounds aren't made purely to placate optimizers and give them Right Choices over Wrong Choices: one of the new backgrounds in the Faerun book is a Dex/Int/Cha ASI with Magic Initiate Wizard as its origin feat. This is blatantly about giving access to the Shield spell for Noble Genie paladins, as they know that said origin feat is considered top-tier for almost every character and that said subclass is deliberately overtuned.)

 

[bedir than]

Then you make a character who is forced to take suboptimal ASIs, due to 2024's draconic backgrounds mechanic—a mechanic that exists solely so that other players can make Wrong Choices—just to receive very situational abilities that don't synergize with any of your class features or options.

I think this dramatically misrepresents the fungibility of the 5e ecosystem where minor bonuses don't have large table impacts.
Dropping a single +1 won't make a material difference.
Expanding your story will influence play much more.

 

[ECMO3]

Then you make a character who is forced to take suboptimal ASIs, due to 2024's draconic backgrounds mechanic—a mechanic that exists solely so that other players can make Wrong Choices—just to receive very situational abilities that don't synergize with any of your class features or options.

(If you think backgrounds aren't made purely to placate optimizers and give them Right Choices over Wrong Choices: one of the new backgrounds in the Faerun book is a Dex/Int/Cha ASI with Magic Initiate Wizard as its origin feat. This is blatantly about giving access to the Shield spell for Noble Genie paladins, as they know that said origin feat is considered top-tier for almost every character and that said subclass is deliberately overtuned.)

They really screwed up the Cult of the Dragon background and feats. The Background gives you Constitution, Dexterity and Intelligence, the origin feat uses Wisdom for your save DC and the Dragonscarred level 4 feat boosts Constitution or Charisma.

This is a mess for just about any build. On point buy, unless you play a custom background you will have a max 15 Wisdom until level 8 and a fear mechanic that works off Wisdom. 15 is really too much to invest in Wisdom if you are not a Cleric, Druid, Monk or Ranger and if you are one of those classes you are pretty weakened due to losing ASIs at both 1st level and 4th level, and the only thing you can push hard is Constitution. In addition to the feat ability being somewhat weak, if you are a Druid or Cleric your spell casting, channel divinity etc is below average until level 8, Monk or Ranger and your attacks are below average from level 5-8.

If your DM lets you use a custom background and can start with a 16 Wisdom, it is a little bit better but it is still not real easy to build around. I was really jazzed about the feat at first, but when I started developing a build around I really could not do anything single classed without taking a significant hit. I came up with a multiclass build - A Fey Wanderer Ranger with a 2-level Bladelock dip that is Charisma first. That is using a custom background though (enabling Charisma and Wisdom), and it will still be a relatively weak save on the main ability from the feat.

As far as the Paladin and Magic Initiate it is not as great as it sounds. Shield is a really good spell, but Paladins generally work best in a Sword and board build and genie Paladin in particular is going to drive you to either sword and board or two-weapon fighting. In either case Shield can be difficult to work in. Not impossible, but rather fussy. Of course you can go Warcaster, but then you are really pushing Charisma.

 

[ECMO3]

I think this dramatically misrepresents the fungibility of the 5e ecosystem where minor bonuses don't have large table impacts. Dropping a single +1 won't make a material difference. Expanding your story will influence play much more.

Suboptimal is suboptimal and there is a material statistical difference with +1. You can argue it is not that significant, but it absolutely is there and it absolutely is suboptimal.

Further, the problem is not +1, it is actually +2 when you consider the mismatch exists on both the background and the 4th level feat.

+2 is 20% of your feats in a level 1 to 20 game or 100% for the average game which stops before level 12.

Also when you say expanding your story will influence play much more, consider the only ability that is on both the Background and the 4th level feat is Constitution, which is least thematic of any of the 6 abilities. Constitution bonuses are the least useful ability to build story off of and connect it to your character mechanically.

Finally we really need to come up with a definition of "optimal". A +3 or a +4 at level 4 is not really optimal it is being ok at something you are supposed to be ok at. Optimal is way higher though. For example, a traditional Fey Wanderer can be really good with a +12 Deception, +9 Intimidation and +9 Persuasion at level 5 while still having a 16 (good) Dexterity, but even that is not optimal. An "optimal" PC is going to be higher than that: +13/+13/+13 at 5th level with a multiclass and with a Friends Cantrip to boot on top of those scores. Pull out the Charisma and Wisdom ASIs and you are quite a bit off of this and it will be a huge difference in play when you are trying to talk your way past guards or fool a Magistrate or spending downtime gambling.

 

[ECMO3]

A Barbarian in tune with nature and animals is an excellent story.

A Barbarian is not typically going to have the Charisma to use the feat's influence mechanic effectively and a Barbarian is typically a class you want to give help to, not a class that you use your action to help.

A Rogue-Thief using their communion with animals to help them steal is a wonderful trope without past support in 5e barring a multiclass dip.

This could be workable, but it is a highly specialized corner case. Also I think it works better with several other subclasses.

I could see a fun way to Paladin this too. Oath of the Ancients tale connects rather well here to expand the story.

I don't see that being particularly fun. Better than putting it on a Druid or Ranger I suppose.

 

[Mephista]

They really screwed up the Cult of the Dragon background and feats. The Background gives you Constitution, Dexterity and Intelligence, the origin feat uses Wisdom for your save DC and the Dragonscarred level 4 feat boosts Constitution or Charisma.

Which makes them perfect for the dragonborn! Their stats have always been screwed up, so we're keeping the tradition alive, baby! Don't change a winning formula!

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

They really screwed up the Cult of the Dragon background and feats. The Background gives you Constitution, Dexterity and Intelligence, the origin feat uses Wisdom for your save DC and the Dragonscarred level 4 feat boosts Constitution or Charisma.

This is a mess for just about any build. On point buy, unless you play a custom background you will have a max 15 Wisdom until level 8 and a fear mechanic that works off Wisdom. 15 is really too much to invest in Wisdom if you are not a Cleric, Druid, Monk or Ranger and if you are one of those classes you are pretty weakened due to losing ASIs at both 1st level and 4th level, and the only thing you can push hard is Constitution. In addition to the feat ability being somewhat weak, if you are a Druid or Cleric your spell casting, channel divinity etc is below average until level 8, Monk or Ranger and your attacks are below average from level 5-8.

If your DM lets you use a custom background and can start with a 16 Wisdom, it is a little bit better but it is still not real easy to build around. I was really jazzed about the feat at first, but when I started developing a build around I really could not do anything single classed without taking a significant hit. I came up with a multiclass build - A Fey Wanderer Ranger with a 2-level Bladelock dip that is Charisma first. That is using a custom background though (enabling Charisma and Wisdom), and it will still be a relatively weak save on the main ability from the feat.

As far as the Paladin and Magic Initiate it is not as great as it sounds. Shield is a really good spell, but Paladins generally work best in a Sword and board build and genie Paladin in particular is going to drive you to either sword and board or two-weapon fighting. In either case Shield can be difficult to work in. Not impossible, but rather fussy. Of course you can go Warcaster, but then you are really pushing Charisma.

Yeah, that is a little goofy, feels like projecting fear onto others with your presence should be charisma. I don't really care so much for the feat... so I don't have much skin in the game there. I would consider going hard on CON with it and not really care if I have a frequent use weak fear effect

 

[Mephista]

Honestly, I'm just going to assume that the stats thing is just mind-derps, typos and early-draft-artifacts that didn't get updated with edit changes, rather than a deliberate decision.

Like, that Wisdom save (8+Prof+Wisdom) is totally something I would have as a DERP moment when writing. Typed Wisdom twice by mistake - "wisdom save means you use wisdom to calculate DC" sounds like wires crossed in the brain. I'd be willing to bet anything its meant to be 8+Prof+Charisma.

And the stats? Intelligence doesn't even make sense in light of the offered skills (deception and stealth). This feels like something that got confused too.

 

[bedir than]

Further, the problem is not +1, it is actually +2 when you consider the mismatch exists on both the background and the 4th level feat.

how are you increasing your ability score four points at fourth level?