Painting minis?

[Marc Radle]

Bones Black minis are much better than previous versions of Bones.

I tend to brush on Vallejo surface primer for most minis (and all Bones!) but I do use Citadel spray primer on larger minis or minis with tons of fiddly bits all over the mini that would be tedious to brush on.

 

[Sacrosanct]

It isn't 'research the chemical composition of each plastic miniature'. It's 'don't buy Bones'. I've never even seen Bones miniatures in a shop! You're scaring people away from the easiest and best way to undercoat normal models just because you got some cheap rubbish from kickstarter.

All the FLGS stores around here had them all over. Only Nolzer were more numerous . Also, they are cheapest minis so likely to be used by new people in the hobby.

I’m not trying to “scare” anyone. I’m saying a whole lot of people were disappointed with tacky minis using spray primer. It’s a thing that happened. It wasn’t fun and if I can prevent that from happening to others I’d like to. So the purpose of this thread is to give advice to a new person to the hobby. So I’m keeping it simple. I gave mine. You don’t agree. Fine. Move on instead of trying to tell me I’m being nefarious or otherwise disingenuous in my advice.

 

[jdrakeh]

I don’t know what your hostility is coming from, but I never said it’s bad for ALL plastics. I said it’s a good idea to avoid using it on plastics. The average person, especially someone new into minis, isn’t gonna do research to look at the chemical composition of every plastic mini. Bones minis are one of the most numerous out there. So it’s reasonable that a good rule of thumb is to avoid using aerosol cans on plastic minis. Especially when there are a million other ways. Especially since a whole lot of painters, new AND experienced, have been burned by doing so.

I’m saying that IMO, it’s better advice to a new painter to use alternatives to spray primer on plastic minis because that’s easier to remember then to ask them to research the material composition of each plastic mini to find out how each spray primer reacts to it.

Again, I’d appreciate it if you would tone down the aggressive rhetoric and stop ascribing motives to me I’m not doing.

There. You've said it multiple times in this very post "avoid using it on plastics" which is, by implication, all plastics as a function of basic grammar. Multiple people have pointed out that it's only an issue (and a well known one at that) with Bones plastics (white and grey specifically) and, rather than accept that, you keep on suggesting it's an issue with "plastics" (again, by implication, all plastics). I'm not intending to be hostile, merely pointing out what you've said (multiple times now) and how it's factually incorrect.

 

[MGibster]

Folks have been mentioning it's the white minis that are a problem. I'm simply saying that it's the grey ones as well, not just white.

I don't know if I've ever painted any of the grey ones, so thanks for pointing that out.

Bones Black minis are much better than previous versions of Bones.

They really are. If for no other reason than because they hold detail a lot better than the old, white plastic they were using. Though I'll give Reaper credit for producing inexpensive miniatures you can use for fantasy gaming.

I’m not trying to “scare” anyone. I’m saying a whole lot of people were disappointed with tacky minis using spray primer. It’s a thing that happened. It wasn’t fun and if I can prevent that from happening to others I’d like to. So the purpose of this thread is to give advice to a new person to the hobby.

It caught me by surprise. I have a little piggy pulling a cart that's still tacky despite having been painted years ago.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Don't know about GW plastic (assuming hard plastic sprues are a different kind of plastic they use for injection molding), but metal minis are never a problem with spray primer. The issue is the aerosol reacts with the plastic polymers for certain types of plastics.

Folks have been mentioning it's the white minis that are a problem. I'm simply saying that it's the grey ones as well, not just white.

"Refusing to admit?" Whoa man, this is just a casual conversation. Can you tone down the accusatory rhetoric please? I'm not refusing to admit anything. I've said which ones I've had problems with, just earlier today I "admitted" that harder plastic like sprues could be fine but I didn't know, but I still would advise folks to avoid using spray cans on plastic, especially for newer painters, because it could be a crap shoot on the result. There are a million other ways to prime minis besides using an aerosol. I recommend the least risk version.

I don’t know what your hostility is coming from, but I never said it’s bad for ALL plastics. I said it’s a good idea to avoid using it on plastics. The average person, especially someone new into minis, isn’t gonna do research to look at the chemical composition of every plastic mini. Bones minis are one of the most numerous out there. So it’s reasonable that a good rule of thumb is to avoid using aerosol cans on plastic minis. Especially when there are a million other ways. Especially since a whole lot of painters, new AND experienced, have been burned by doing so.

I’m saying that IMO, it’s better advice to a new painter to use alternatives to spray primer on plastic minis because that’s easier to remember then to ask them to research the material composition of each plastic mini to find out how each spray primer reacts to it.

Again, I’d appreciate it if you would tone down the aggressive rhetoric and stop ascribing motives to me I’m not doing.

There. You've said it multiple times in this very post "avoid using it on plastics" which is, by implication, all plastics as a function of basic grammar. Multiple people have pointed out that it's only an issue (and a well known one at that) with Bones plastics (white and grey specifically) and, rather than accept that, you keep on suggesting it's an issue with "plastics" (again, by implication, all plastics). I'm not intending to be hostile, merely pointing out what you've said (multiple times now) and how it's factually incorrect.

Reread those quotes. Each one of them states how not all plastics are impacted, so I’d appreciate it if you’d stop accusing me of saying it’s all plastics. “Don’t use on plastics” does not imply or infer all plastics have an issue. It’s an advice statement that I felt I’ve been clear on that is used as a blanket statement for simplicity. I.e., if 50% of people are getting sick by eating fish, me saying don’t eat fish doesn’t mean every fish is going to be bad.

Again, and I’m trying to be clear so as to avoid ambiguity, I advised a new person into this hobby as a GENERAL RULE to avoid using spray aerosols on plastic minis because a very popular brand likely to used by newer hobbyists due to the accessibility and cost will be ruined by doing so. And unless you know the material used for the plastic minis, which most casual hobbyists don’t know or think to know, you could have the issue and have a bad experience. For me, it’s not worth the risk.

 

[jdrakeh]

It isn't 'research the chemical composition of each plastic miniature'. It's 'don't buy Bones'. I've never even seen Bones miniatures in a shop! You're scaring people away from the easiest and best way to undercoat normal models just because you got some cheap rubbish from kickstarter.

Some stores do carry Bones mins but, yes, they're mostly acquired from Kickstarter. That said, there's a reason the white and grey Bones minis are inexpensive. And, yes, rattle can primer can be sticky/tacky on these minis. But as you (and pretty much every other posters in this thread except Sacrosanct) has deduced, it's an issue with these very specific minis. Not rattle can primer. Not other plastic minis. ONLY BONES MINIS (excluding Bones Black minis). Which, for some reason, Sacrosanct can't/won't acknowledge.

 

[Sacrosanct]

You know, if you're gonna block me, I'd appreciate it if at least you stop making the (incorrect assumed) digs at my motivations. I've been asking more than once to stop, and it looks like rather than take that route, you've decide to block and keep making them, just this time behind my back.

 

[Staffan]

Folks have been mentioning it's the white minis that are a problem. I'm simply saying that it's the grey ones as well, not just white.

Here's how I understand it: "Bones" is a fairly wide category that contains at least five types of plastic:

1. Original white Bones. These are fairly "rubbery" and often have not-so-great detail. These aren't made anymore, but there are large numbers in circulation and in stock.
2. Revised Bones. They basically use the same material as OG Bones, but are a darker grey and have some additives that make them harder but less flexible. Basically a middle ground between OG Bones and Bones Black.
3. Bones Black. A harder and less flexible version of Bones. This was introduced during the Bones 4 KS, and in 5 and 6 most of the minis were made from this material. However, it's not suited for larger minis, so those were instead made with revised Bones.
4. SiOCast. This is a method/material that lets them cast plastic minis in-house in smaller series than Bones/Bones Black (Bones/Bones Black requires steel molds that are hideously expensive to make, but once made each mini can be made really cheaply, which is why they're perfect for Kickstarters). These are sold as Bones USA in the Dungeon Dwellers and Reaper Legends lines.
5. 3D-printed resin. Also sold as Bones USA.

1 and 2 are definitely susceptible to tackiness when primed with rattlecans, because they're basically variants on the same material. I'm not sure if 3 is as well – I think it is but I'm not sure. 4 and 5 should not be.

Also, the issue with rattlecans seemingly have more to do with the propellant than the actual paint. I have seen plenty of people say that they primed a number of minis with rattlecans and had no issues, and then primed some others with the same can and had them come out tacky. It can also take a while for the tackiness to set in, so an immediate check isn't particularly helpful.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Here's how I understand it: "Bones" is a fairly wide category that contains at least five types of plastic:

1. Original white Bones. These are fairly "rubbery" and often have not-so-great detail. These aren't made anymore, but there are large numbers in circulation and in stock.
2. Revised Bones. They basically use the same material as OG Bones, but are a darker grey and have some additives that make them harder but less flexible. Basically a middle ground between OG Bones and Bones Black.
3. Bones Black. A harder and less flexible version of Bones. This was introduced during the Bones 4 KS, and in 5 and 6 most of the minis were made from this material. However, it's not suited for larger minis, so those were instead made with revised Bones.
4. SiOCast. This is a method/material that lets them cast plastic minis in-house in smaller series than Bones/Bones Black (Bones/Bones Black requires steel molds that are hideously expensive to make, but once made each mini can be made really cheaply, which is why they're perfect for Kickstarters). These are sold as Bones USA in the Dungeon Dwellers and Reaper Legends lines.
5. 3D-printed resin. Also sold as Bones USA.

1 and 2 are definitely susceptible to tackiness when primed with rattlecans, because they're basically variants on the same material. I'm not sure if 3 is as well – I think it is but I'm not sure. 4 and 5 should not be.

Also, the issue with rattlecans seemingly have more to do with the propellant than the actual paint. I have seen plenty of people say that they primed a number of minis with rattlecans and had no issues, and then primed some others with the same can and had them come out tacky. It can also take a while for the tackiness to set in, so an immediate check isn't particularly helpful.

I know at least bones V was still grey. That was the batch I ruined with spray primer. And yes, what I heard is that it’s the areosol propellant and not the primer itself that causes the issue. Thus, depending on how far away you held the can could cause a different result.

 

[Clint_L]

The grey Bones minis are made of the same non-standard (i.e. rubbery) plastic as the white Bones minis.

I don't think so. For one thing, the plastic is a lot stiffer and holds much better detail. I believe it is their Bones Black plastic. Also, I have painted a ton of those, from that KS, primed them all with Citadel Chaos Black spray primer, and years later they are still perfectly fine.

Krylon primer is not really designed for plastic miniatures. It's worth spending a bit more on Citadel primer, IMO, which is.