Why aren't megacorps as big a part of Steampunk as they are of Cyberpunk?

[jian]

The Gilded Age is post-Victorian (Edwardian).

Not really, it’s generally defined as around 1870-1900 so firmly late Victorian.

It was much more an American thing than British, of course - apart from the general upswing in the world economy and spread of predatory business practices (which we were already totally on board with) one of the main effects was the number of newly rich Americans marrying British aristocrats for titles (“buccaneers”), such as Winston Churchill’s mum.

 

[Umbran]

If anything it seems like that concept would fit Steampunk more, given that the era its meant to emulate had things like the East India Company going on.

Why not? Because steampunk is a reaction to cyberpunk, not merely a time-shifted mimic of cyberpunk.

Cyberpunk is about the existential crisis of loss of individuality. Cyberpunk has the ultimate antagonist being the faceless corporate totality, and the individual is (often hopelessly) raging against a machine they are already a part of. Even when the characters are part of an underclass that has "fallen through the cracks", it turns out that underclass is again merely a corporate tool.

Steampunk turns that around, and puts the focus on the individual - steampunk at its best still rages against injustices, but the sources of injustice typically have faces, and the individual makes their own machine (both literally and metaphorically) to combat it.

 

[Reynard]

Why not? Because steampunk is a reaction to cyberpunk, not merely a time-shifted mimic of cyberpunk.

This link seems pretty typical of sites explaining the origins of the term: What is Steampunk — Definition, Origins, and Examples

What I find interesting is that no real mention of the "punk" aspect is discussed. It is all aesthetic with Steampunk, and apparently has been from the beginning.

 

[jian]

This link seems pretty typical of sites explaining the origins of the term: What is Steampunk — Definition, Origins, and Examples

What I find interesting is that no real mention of the "punk" aspect is discussed. It is all aesthetic with Steampunk, and apparently has been from the beginning.

Yes, that makes sense. The punk bit is just there as a reference to cyberpunk and alternate technological development, not to make me feel rebellious for sewing gears on my top hat.

I guess dieselpunk is much the same.

 

[Umbran]

What I find interesting is that no real mention of the "punk" aspect is discussed. It is all aesthetic with Steampunk, and apparently has been from the beginning.

Well, I would disagree with that sentiment, in a couple of ways.

"-punk" is about rejection of the status quo - whatever it happens to be.

Cyberpunk is not punk just because it is anti-corporate. It is punk because it rejected the genre conventions of its day. It is a rejection of the hard scifi and Space Opera that preceded it, aiming for a more grounded, cynical, near-future dystopian corporate collective.

That grounded, near-future cynicism became a major influence on science fiction in the 80s, beyond cyberpunk itself. So, steampunk rejects that. It is about not the far future, or the near future, but an alternate past. It rejects the cynicism for more optimism, in which personal craftsmanship and effort are the focus, and individuals regularly make a difference. Steampunk frequently includes supernatural elements where the hard sci-fi, Space Opera, and cyberpunk before it largely rejected the spiritual.

And so on. The focus on esthetic really does all these genres an injustice.

 

[Reynard]

Well, I would disagree with that sentiment, in a couple of ways.

"-punk" is about rejection of the status quo - whatever it happens to be.

Cyberpunk is not punk just because it is anti-corporate. It is punk because it rejected the genre conventions of its day. It is a rejection of the hard scifi and Space Opera that preceded it, aiming for a more grounded, cynical, near-future dystopian corporate collective.

That grounded, near-future cynicism became a major influence on science fiction in the 80s, beyond cyberpunk itself. So, steampunk rejects that. It is about not the far future, or the near future, but an alternate past. It rejects the cynicism for more optimism, in which personal craftsmanship and effort are the focus, and individuals regularly make a difference. Steampunk frequently includes supernatural elements where the hard sci-fi, Space Opera, and cyberpunk before it largely rejected the spiritual.

And so on. The focus on esthetic really does all these genres an injustice.

I was referring to the quotes from Jeter himself who coined the term.

 

[John Quixote]

The biggest issue is that a lot of time steampunk settings and stories forget that the word includes "punk"

It's not so much "forgotten" as it is irrelevant. The term "steampunk" was coined merely to sound like cyberpunk, and maybe to poke fun at how pretentious it could sometimes be. But it certainly wasn't ever intended to mean anything akin to "folk-heroic rebels on the margins of society, sticking it to the (Victorian Age) Man!"

 

[Koloth]

No, they don't fit it at all. There were no corporations in the truly modern sense, just robber barons and industrial tycoons.

In the US, many of the western railroads probably qualified as mega corps. One of the subsidies they got from the US Govt was alternating square miles of land along the tracks they laid into the western US. Land = money = power. Many of the railroads leased their right of ways to telegraph and later telephone companies. And they got a de facto monopoly on rail transport into the towns that grew along and on railroad property. Many of the rail companies were publicly traded so a modern corporation. A fair number of ranches came close. Look up the 101 Ranch in Oklahoma. Grew to 100,000 acres. Was into almost every aspect of agriculture. Plus its entertainment branch with shows that toured the world. Not a corporation by the modern public traded stock sense but in every other way it looked like a very diversified modern mega corp.
A steampunk game could imagine a setting where the 101 Ranch merged with one of the nearby nation spanning railroads and created a truly national mega corp. Add in the telegraph and telephone services for extra credit.

 

[MarkB]

Well, I would disagree with that sentiment, in a couple of ways.

"-punk" is about rejection of the status quo - whatever it happens to be.

Cyberpunk is not punk just because it is anti-corporate. It is punk because it rejected the genre conventions of its day. It is a rejection of the hard scifi and Space Opera that preceded it, aiming for a more grounded, cynical, near-future dystopian corporate collective.

That grounded, near-future cynicism became a major influence on science fiction in the 80s, beyond cyberpunk itself. So, steampunk rejects that. It is about not the far future, or the near future, but an alternate past. It rejects the cynicism for more optimism, in which personal craftsmanship and effort are the focus, and individuals regularly make a difference.

I can't say I ever really saw the steampunk genre as predominantly optimistic. More like, it was cynical about different things.

Steampunk frequently includes supernatural elements where the hard sci-fi, Space Opera, and cyberpunk before it largely rejected the spiritual.

And then there's Shadowrun.

 

[Gradine]

It's not so much "forgotten" as it is irrelevant. The term "steampunk" was coined merely to sound like cyberpunk, and maybe to poke fun at how pretentious it could sometimes be. But it certainly wasn't ever intended to mean anything akin to "folk-heroic rebels on the margins of society, sticking it to the (Victorian Age) Man!"

Well, they could and they should