D&D General Is Grappler feat mandatory/broken for monks?

[TorgoTheWhite]

I nerfed it as far as the max movement you can drag an opponent with it... but that is mostly mechanical feeling of having a lithe dex-based character suddenly forcefully drag big brutes around a battlefield. Honestly, it feels to me like there should be that differentiation on Str based grapplers versus ScarJo types

 

[Lazybones]

I have a house rule that if you drag someone through a hazard, like spike growth, you take the damage as well. That, combined with carrying capacity limits (the 2024 monks I've seen so far have been Dex builds rather than Strength), tends to limit the shenanigans you can get up to with grappling. I know some people ignore carrying capacity as a rule, but while I don't enforce it religiously I tend to keep an eye on it as a limiting factor (playing in a VTT makes this much easier). Otherwise I'm fine with letter a player push the limits on what the 2024 rules allow when it comes to grappling.

 

[Clint_L]

Stunning Strike is much more of a balance concern with a Monk.

I've always thought Stunning Strike was overrated, and even more so with the new kit (you get one attempt). Like most save or suck options, it's too unpredicatable to plan around, and a lot of opponents have high con saves relative to the monk's wisdom-based DC, even at low levels. I seldom attempt it - I can lock someone down much more predictably with hand of harm/grapple. Though I can always throw a Stunning Strike on top of the grapple if I feel it is needed.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

I have a house rule that if you drag someone through a hazard, like spike growth, you take the damage as well.

I thought about using that house rule but instead went with the ruling that when the grappler moves, the grappled target gets to decide which square(s) on the map they are dragged into (must be a legal position within 5ft of the grappler). This also fixes the silliness of "I make you fall off a cliff but somehow don't fall myself even though we're tangled up".

 

[Tessarael]

They nerfed Stunning Strike in D&D 2024. In D&D 2014, you could do it repeatedly on all of your attacks on the turn, until you stunned the opponent. In D&D 2024, you can only do Stunning Strike once per turn. So, it is less powerful in D&D 2024.

 

[billd91]

They nerfed Stunning Strike in D&D 2024. In D&D 2014, you could do it repeatedly on all of your attacks on the turn, until you stunned the opponent. In D&D 2024, you can only do Stunning Strike once per turn. So, it is less powerful in D&D 2024.

It did get hit with the nerf bat AND THIS IS A GOOD THING. I tell you, a high Con isn’t that much of a defense when the save DC is 20-ish and the monk is flurrying multiple shots a round. It rapidly peeled away legendary resistance as well.

 

[Clint_L]

It did get hit with the nerf bat AND THIS IS A GOOD THING. I tell you, a high Con isn’t that much of a defense when the save DC is 20-ish and the monk is flurrying multiple shots a round. It rapidly peeled away legendary resistance as well.

This seems like a very niche situation. To get to a 20-ish DC on stunning strike we are talking about probably a 20th level monk (you need at least a 22 Wisdom). Monks always prioritize dexterity and are a famously MAD class, so their DC is typically quite low. For example, my level 8 monk's DC is 14, and this strikes me as pretty standard. So that's a vanishly small subset of monks, and given all the other stuff that monks and everyone else can do at level 20...eh. Not that impressive. I would say the monk's five attacks every round, not to mention insane maneuverability and resistance to basically all damage, are a lot more impressive. You can take stunning strike away completely and most opponents are still completely screwed against a level 20 monk with the 2024 rules.

I love the nerf to stunning strike. Spamming it turned monks into one trick ponies, and the new version actually produces a useful effect even on a successful save. I use stunning strike very, very rarely. I use grapple every round, at no loss of damage or resource cost, unless the larget is too big.

 

[billd91]

This seems like a very niche situation. To get to a 20-ish DC on stunning strike we are talking about probably a 20th level monk (you need at least a 22 Wisdom). Monks always prioritize dexterity and are a famously MAD class, so their DC is typically quite low. For example, my level 8 monk's DC is 14, and this strikes me as pretty standard. So that's a vanishly small subset of monks, and given all the other stuff that monks and everyone else can do at level 20...eh. Not that impressive. I would say the monk's five attacks every round, not to mention insane maneuverability and resistance to basically all damage, are a lot more impressive. You can take stunning strike away completely and most opponents are still completely screwed against a level 20 monk with the 2024 rules.

I love the nerf to stunning strike. Spamming it turned monks into one trick ponies, and the new version actually produces a useful effect even on a successful save. I use stunning strike very, very rarely. I use grapple every round, at no loss of damage or resource cost, unless the larget is too big.

I wouldn't consider play over 10th level particularly niche. His save DC didn't crest 20 for a while, but even before that, he was a menace running around the battlefield stunning things right and left with a DC of 15 or 16. The fact was, before the nerf, he got so many tries at it that lots of them had to succeed. Because while many creatures have a reasonably good Con around 14-16, not that many have proficiency in their Con save. So that DC 14 save of yours still has a better than even chance of affecting lots of opponents - very few of which are immune to stun conditions.

 

[NaturalZero]

I remember people arguing about how good stunning strike is/was and I feel like there's bit of confirmation bias. Often times, you have to spend a bunch of ki doing it over and over just to get it to work a single time.

One of best pieces of real table playtest was Critical Role's campaign 2. We got to see a monk start out at level 5 and get all of the way to late game. She started with a pretty standard DC 14 at that level, increasing over time, and used the feature over 70 times over the course of the game against a broad range of creature types. She had a success rate of less than 35%.

What happens in reality is that the monk player often blows a lot of ki just trying to get a single stun. The stun feels GREAT, like hitting the jackpot, because you fail more often than you succeed at an attempt. People are more likely to remember when the stunning strike came at a clutch moment instead of failing twice as many times. Now, i don't think the nerf was that bad. I just think that it was was a very overrated feature in 2014.

 

[bedir than]

I've always thought Stunning Strike was overrated, and even more so with the new kit (you get one attempt). Like most save or suck options, it's too unpredicatable to plan around, and a lot of opponents have high con saves relative to the monk's wisdom-based DC, even at low levels. I seldom attempt it - I can lock someone down much more predictably with hand of harm/grapple. Though I can always throw a Stunning Strike on top of the grapple if I feel it is needed.

If the party has a Divination wizard or similar portent type effects that can autofail that Stunning Strike turns the tide of a battle fast.