Is this what it feels like to be a forever GM?

[Mini_Mischief]

Hello. Apologies if this has been covered before but I couldn't find anything after a quick search.

I've been in and out of the TTRPG hobby for several years but recently have thrown myself back into it. I've been trying to build a bit of a local community, have regularly hired a community centre to run games and have been running games for newbies and young people at the local library. To try and bring GMs to our events I have created a physical miniature and map library for anyone to use at our events. I'm enjoying the process but there's a feeling that's been stirring in the back of my head and I want to know if it's just me or if there's something I should be doing differently.

I know there has always been an imbalance between players and GMs in this hobby, but what really gets to me is the lack of investment from players. I'm talking about turning up to games with nothing or at most a character sheet. They haven't even purchased and flipped through the rule book for the hobby they say they love. The best analogy I can think of is someone organising a game of Warhammer and being expected to buy, build and paint both armies because the other person wants to play but hasn't bother to invest in their own army. Nobody in that hobby would stand for it, so why do we in this one? Has anyone actually managed to change that dynamic, and if so, how?

Then there's the local game stores. One near me has been trying to find GMs to come into their store and run events for them. When I looked into it I struggled to see how that would actually benefit me as a GM. I was expected to plan the sessions, prepare all the content, bring everything needed to run the game and deliver the whole thing. The stores contribution were some tables and chairs that tbh weren't really set up with TTRPGs in mind, then they'd advertise the event and charge players to come.

I used to think that the term "Forever GM' just meant being the only person willing to run games, but I'm starting to feel it's more than that and that GMs need to essentially prop up the whole of the hobby for everyone else.

Apologies for the rant. I'm not planning on going anywhere. I'm going to keep hiring the hall, running games and trying to build the community. But wanted to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way and wants it to be different. Please tell me it's because the community I'm building is new? I'd love to hear from people who've managed to build a community where the GMs are valued and players are genuinely invested, how did you do this and what does it actually look like in practice.

 

[amethal]

I admire what you are trying to do, but it seems like you are mostly gaming with strangers?

I'm in three gaming groups (although there's some overlap in membership) and we are all friends. Admittedly, in some cases we started off as "friends of friends". I GM for one group, another person GM's for the second group - although one of the players has indicated he'd like to give it a go at some point - and we share the GM role around in the third group, as several of us have things we'd like to run.

We're all busy people, and sometimes the players can't be as invested as they'd like, but everybody has a good time and appreciates the time the GM has put in.

If you are meeting lots of potential players, is there scope for cherry-picking the better ones and forming a group out of them? Or are they all bad?

In my experience, people who are invested in the hobby eventually want to have a go at the GM's role, so if you can get some invested players then you will get some GMs out of it over time.

You don't say what games you are running, so I assume it's D&D. If you are finding it a lot of work, you could try running a more "rules-light" system instead. I'm currently running a game of FATE Core, and whilst none of us really know what we are doing I'm really enjoying the lack of rules and emphasis on creativity.

 

[Artamo]

Your experience is why I feel the professional DM or paid-DM approach is a great thing for the hobby. There is definitely a divide between players and DMs with players having to do little more than show up at the game. DMs, however, have entire books dedicated towards making their lives easier but their very existence shows the issue: DMs cannot simply show up for a game in the same way a player can. I personally feel that expecting players (and stores) to pay to have a game session run is the most direct way to mitigate it. Paid DMs may draw a lot of flak, and people may balk entirely at the idea of paying someone to run a game for them but when you’re talking about strangers running a game for strangers, reserving their time, expecting a one sided commitment at least initially, the risk is entirely on the DM’s side.

 

[payn]

If you are not running organized play you should look into it. Might take some work off your plate. It also expects inconsistent attendance but also encourages taking the GM seat on occasion. Build up from there.

It’s tough sledding I e built a massive Battletech community here in the Twin Cities but it took patience and a lot of effort. Days when I want to quit and days that are pure joy.

Good luck!

 

[Mini_Mischief]

I admire what you are trying to do, but it seems like you are mostly gaming with strangers?

I'm in three gaming groups (although there's some overlap in membership) and we are all friends. Admittedly, in some cases we started off as "friends of friends". I GM for one group, another person GM's for the second group - although one of the players has indicated he'd like to give it a go at some point - and we share the GM role around in the third group, as several of us have things we'd like to run.

We're all busy people, and sometimes the players can't be as invested as they'd like, but everybody has a good time and appreciates the time the GM has put in.

If you are meeting lots of potential players, is there scope for cherry-picking the better ones and forming a group out of them? Or are they all bad?

In my experience, people who are invested in the hobby eventually want to have a go at the GM's role, so if you can get some invested players then you will get some GMs out of it over time.

You don't say what games you are running, so I assume it's D&D. If you are finding it a lot of work, you could try running a more "rules-light" system instead. I'm currently running a game of FATE Core, and whilst none of us really know what we are doing I'm really enjoying the lack of rules and emphasis on creativity.

Yes, I am mostly playing with strangers. I have a very small circle of friends, and of those only 1 has shown any kind of interested in TTRPGs and they are helping me to run this community.

I am running a regular table with a few consistent players and a few that drop in/out which I am enjoying, don't get me wrong, my post wasn't intending to call out any individual players as "bad".

Whenever a new person joins the group, I do ask them about other games that they are involved in and quite often they are involved in other games either as a player or GM, but if I enquire deeper they tend to close up and don't really want to share more. I'm not sure if it's my personality or if people don't want to let others into their groups? They keep coming back to my game, so I can only assume that it isn't me and they just don't want to let others into their existing games.

I do run D&D, mainly because that's what people seem to want to play. I've tried Daggerheart and Mothership and while I enjoyed running both, the interest from players wasn't there. I don't find the prep too onerous and actually enjoy it, hence why I've built out the miniature and map libraries for the community.

I know that the "Forever GM" banner is seen as the GM implying that they want to play some times, which isn't really the point I was trying to make. My gripe is the expectation that the GM should bear the cost of prepping the game, buying materials and seem to essentially propping up the TTRPG industry so that others can just enjoy the game at minimum time and money invested.

 

[Mini_Mischief]

Your experience is why I feel the professional DM or paid-DM approach is a great thing for the hobby. There is definitely a divide between players and DMs with players having to do little more than show up at the game. DMs, however, have entire books dedicated towards making their lives easier but their very existence shows the issue: DMs cannot simply show up for a game in the same way a player can. I personally feel that expecting players (and stores) to pay to have a game session run is the most direct way to mitigate it. Paid DMs may draw a lot of flak, and people may balk entirely at the idea of paying someone to run a game for them but when you’re talking about strangers running a game for strangers, reserving their time, expecting a one sided commitment at least initially, the risk is entirely on the DM’s side.

Agreed. I have invested a lot of my own time and money into starting the community, which I'm currently running at a loss. I ask players to donate when they attend, which doesn't yet cover the cost of hiring the hall. When I'm asked about running games at other venues such as game stores and have the gall to ask how I might benefit from such an arrangement, I'm met with looks of incredulity, like they were doing me a favour.

 

[Mini_Mischief]

If you are not running organized play you should look into it. Might take some work off your plate. It also expects inconsistent attendance but also encourages taking the GM seat on occasion. Build up from there.

It’s tough sledding I e built a massive Battletech community here in the Twin Cities but it took patience and a lot of effort. Days when I want to quit and days that are pure joy.

Good luck!

Do you mean like Adventurer's League? I looked into it, but again the burden was on the GM to purchase the adventures in order to run the games.

 

[Reynard]

I find that GMs who go to major effort with prep, terrain, painted minis and buying every book actually exacerbate the problem of GMing being intimidating (and that is to say nothing of the impact of celebrity streaming GMs).

In order to grow the pool of GMs, we need to show that it is easy and does not require a huge investment of money or time.

I have said this before (and even created rather contentious threads) but I will say it again: GMING IS NOT HARD. We learned to do it at 10 years old with nothing bust the Red Box.

If you are trying to cultivate new GMs from your community, model how fun and easy it is. Don't overwhelm them with prep and expenditures.

 

[payn]

Do you mean like Adventurer's League? I looked into it, but again the burden was on the GM to purchase the adventures in order to run the games.

It does have a low cost but it’s usually pretty affordable. I’d ask an FLGS to cover the cost if they are charging for seats. It’s just an idea that has a lot of online support that may take some of the load off you.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

What you're describing isn't the "Forever GM" problem. It's the "Forever Problem" for GMs. To be a Game Master is essentially taking on a service position that many people believe comes automatically with the games they bought. The games outright require that somebody must take on the responsibility to make their games work.

For someone who just wants to play the game, that's someone else's job. They already paid for the book to play the game, why can't they just play it? Or they're not really that invested and figure the person who gets to be in charge of the game should also provide the game.

Not all people are like that, of course. But a lot of them are, and that's just the way it has been since games were designed to force one person into that often thankless and difficult role of making the games available for everyone else to enjoy. Now there is this weird perception that GMs are people who were born to do this, that they need to run games because it is in their DNA. They crave it! They're celebrities! Why pay them when they're already getting the privilege of running their games, their visions, their masterpieces? Players and game stores are doing GMs a favor by providing them an audience or a venue!

You're asking how to make people appreciate what you're doing, or what you're attempting to do. Some people will only appreciate what you can do for them, and sadly, it is often either what they feel they are entitled to or what they feel they shouldn't have to pay for.

I suggest if you want people who appreciate you as a GM first, ask for payment. Even if it is only $5 a seat, you'll know that anyone at your table is there hoping for a better experience than what they expect from sitting at a random table with random people and random expectations. Once they're seated, it's up to you to make them feel if they got their money's worth. Good luck!