Wes Schneider Is the Product Lead for Ravenloft: The Horrors Within

Wes Schneider was confirmed to be the product lead for Ravenloft: The Horrors Within in a recent panel at Gary Con. Over the weekend, Wizards of the Coast hosted a panel discussion about the past and future of Dungeons & Dragons featuring much of the current game leadership and Luke Gygax. While discussing the upcoming Ravenloft: The Horrors Within rulebook, D&D game design director Justice Ramin Arman stated that Wes Schneider was the product lead for the book. Schneider notably was the product lead for the last Ravenloft book Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft.

Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft notably updated the lore of Ravenloft, with different Domains of Dread shifting to focus on different genres of horror. While it's unclear whether that change is being reversed or fleshed out further, the new Ravenloft book will notably include statblocks for the various Darklords, something that Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft curiously lacked.

Ravenloft: The Horrors Within will be released on June 16th.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It's a carrot and stick scenario. Old Ravenloft enforced Gothic horror only via stick. You were beaten down with fear, horror, powers checks, crippled abilities, etc. Ravenloft later embraced both carrot and stick (3e Arthaus provided lots of "become a monster" PC options mixed with classic Ravenloft sticks) and 5e has opted for pure carrot. The net result I've seen is PC embracing the dark and flawed aspects of PCs (a dhampir dealing with his cravings, a reborn trying to find her place after her life originally ended) far better than forcing said decisions on the player with hamfisted DM fiat rules.

I've played Ravenloft in every edition it's been in print for and never found player buy in quite like the 5e version. People loved playing tragic heroes when they get to choose the tragedy.

IME, the stick only method is actively detrimental to anything like immersion.

When the game tries to force me to feel fear with bad character mechanics, i just roll my eyes and dont care much about the story. When the story does that work, the story actually affects me.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It was there to be scary and making you feel the limitations of your character. Not for being able to play a vampire and be badass.

D&D is generally not well suited to horror gameplay. It's heroic fantasy. Even if that heroic fantasy is Halloween Themed. Sometimes that heroic fantasy takes the form of a badass vampire killing some other, worse vampire.

To make D&D into a horror game, you might want to revisit things like....levels...spellcasting...heck, even the d20 mechanic might need some work.

Even in Ravenloft's heyday, when it wanted to lean hard into the horror and helplessness, D&D was an awkward fit for that vibe. The OG adventure was a weekend in hell, and used a gothic castle as a particularly vibey dungeon crawl. The 2e setting had interesting ideas alongside anemic mechanics.

I'd love to play a version of Ravenloft that worked with the horror and the helplessness to give a different play experience, but that ain't D&D's main wheelhouse, and I can't fault WotC for making RL a flavor of D&D first and a horror experience second.

Now talk to me about adopting a Ravenloft game to Dread or 10 Candles or even...Kult?...and maybe we can do a version of the setting that doesn't assume that the paladin will eventually be level 20.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

D&D is generally not well suited to horror gameplay. It's heroic fantasy. Even if that heroic fantasy is Halloween Themed. Sometimes that heroic fantasy takes the form of a badass vampire killing some other, worse vampire.

To make D&D into a horror game, you might want to revisit things like....levels...spellcasting...heck, even the d20 mechanic might need some work.

Even in Ravenloft's heyday, when it wanted to lean hard into the horror and helplessness, D&D was an awkward fit for that vibe. The OG adventure was a weekend in hell, and used a gothic castle as a particularly vibey dungeon crawl. The 2e setting had interesting ideas alongside anemic mechanics.

I'd love to play a version of Ravenloft that worked with the horror and the helplessness to give a different play experience, but that ain't D&D's main wheelhouse, and I can't fault WotC for making RL a flavor of D&D first and a horror experience second.

Now talk to me about adopting a Ravenloft game to Dread or 10 Candles or even...Kult?...and maybe we can do a version of the setting that doesn't assume that the paladin will eventually be level 20.

I would say Van Richten's Guide does a better job of it with the little vulnerable guys you can use for prologues or to just run a one shot of actual horror.

 

[Mecheon]

It was supposed to be a trap. Being in the Ravenloft campaign setting was a curse and punishment. It was there to be scary and making you feel the limitations of your character. Not for being able to play a vampire and be badass.
You'd literally lose your character to the Dark Powers and become a monster if you became a vampire back then.
But I guess 5e is for players who grew up with Twilight.

It was the Weekend in Hell adventure place if you didn't have anywhere else to go. And, honestly? It wasn't scary. It was so bad at being scary they had to introduce a check that was basically the "Okay you're scared now" check.

As the original one shows, its supposed to be the setting where your big, badass character solves the problems plaguing this land and gets rid of the Darklord, freeing the people they've controlled. That's why the original module is well remembered, because it knows what it is. The rest of it does not, and is transparently aping off World of Darkness and horror movies the writers liked, to the point even Spelljammer with its Gameras, Aura Battlers and Guyvers does more original stuff with those aspects over Ravenloft not only flat out just re-doing movies, but also pre-empting the recent trend of "Its X but now dark and spooky".

Its not about losing your character to the Dark Powers, that's the bad path stuff that's written down and never played. Its about getting a backstory told to you and not being able to change anything. Old Ravenloft wasn't great.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I'd love to see this content ported to Dragonbane. I think that system (perhaps not the ducks) would be great for the setting.

 

[jerryrice4949]

D&D is generally not well suited to horror gameplay. It's heroic fantasy. Even if that heroic fantasy is Halloween Themed. Sometimes that heroic fantasy takes the form of a badass vampire killing some other, worse vampire.

To make D&D into a horror game, you might want to revisit things like....levels...spellcasting...heck, even the d20 mechanic might need some work.

Even in Ravenloft's heyday, when it wanted to lean hard into the horror and helplessness, D&D was an awkward fit for that vibe. The OG adventure was a weekend in hell, and used a gothic castle as a particularly vibey dungeon crawl. The 2e setting had interesting ideas alongside anemic mechanics.

I'd love to play a version of Ravenloft that worked with the horror and the helplessness to give a different play experience, but that ain't D&D's main wheelhouse, and I can't fault WotC for making RL a flavor of D&D first and a horror experience second.

Now talk to me about adopting a Ravenloft game to Dread or 10 Candles or even...Kult?...and maybe we can do a version of the setting that doesn't assume that the paladin will eventually be level 20.

I have read this tired narrative quite a bit. Some of my groups favorite adventures since 5E came out were horror adventures. All modules off the DMs Guild of varying quality. Horror is an atmosphere that a decent DM can cultivate regardless of the system. Heroic or high fantasy does not preclude horror.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I have read this tired narrative quite a bit. Some of my groups favorite adventures since 5E came out were horror adventures. All modules off the DMs Guild of varying quality. Horror is an atmosphere that a decent DM can cultivate regardless of the system. Heroic or high fantasy does not preclude horror.

It's important to be clear about terms. When I say "horror gameplay," I'm referring specifically to a post saying that Ravenloft play should be about "feeling the limits of your character" and "it's a curse and a punishment" and "it's supposed to be a trap."

I'm pointing out that that kind of disempowerment is a clumsy fit for D&D mechanics...like hit points, or levels, or a 1-in-20-chance of miraculous success, or long rests, or Turn Undead. Mechanics are metaphors, and some make better metaphors for curses, punishments, traps, and limits than others.

So I am saying that horror gameplay -- feeling cursed, punished, trapped, and limited, which is what the post I'm responded to is interested in doing -- is more than an atmosphere.

Atmosphere can go a long way, and you can still have fun with Halloween Themed D&D (I do!). But it's not wrong to say that choosing to play a vampire for fun or choosing to be cursed by the Dark Powers as a neat character option are mechanics that work against the feeling of being cursed, trapped, punished, and limited. Namely because they give you control and agency over the horrors that should be making you feel weak and hunted. Dracula isn't really a story about how cool vampires are.

It's fine for modern Ravenloft not to lean into those feelings -- they aren't feelings D&D's mechanics really highlight. It's valid to lean into being monstrous heroes. It's a fun way to play that works with how people play D&D already.

It's fine WANT those feelings in your game, too, and to miss them when they are absent from modern Ravenloft.

My point is that if you want those things in your game, then you should probably look beyond D&D to capture them, even if you set your game in Ravenloft. WotC probably won't give us a version of Ravenloft that sells those feelings very hard. But, those feelings can still be found in interesting mechancis and injected into your games at home (even your otherwise standard D&D games!).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

People engage in D&D in different ways. I grew up reading the old novels including Knight of the Black Rose, which is a darn good story, so I strongly disagree with this.

A novel is a novel, D&D settings are not novels, they exist to be played.

If you want to read the novel it hasn’t gone anywhere, you can read it as many times as you like.

 

[zottel]

I'd love to see this content ported to Dragonbane. I think that system (perhaps not the ducks) would be great for the setting.

Think that could work really well! And i mean, ducks fit, come on. Did you know the quack of a vampiric duck has no echo?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's important to be clear about terms. When I say "horror gameplay," I'm referring specifically to a post saying that Ravenloft play should be about "feeling the limits of your character" and "it's a curse and a punishment" and "it's supposed to be a trap."

The foremost thing is that a game of D&D must be fun for the players. If you set out to punish them, your campaign will die. Horror gaming is about sending a frisson of fear up your players' spine, not hitting their PCs with a big stick. And horror is not the same as grimdark. It's not uncommon in horror for the forces of good win. Dracula was the original inspiration for Ravenloft, and in Dracula, the title character is defeated, only one major character dies, and no one goes insane.