Critical Fumble?

Hypersmurf · Aug 19, 2005

Murrdox said:
I think we should write into the Sage and demand that the next PHB 3.5 2nd Edition devote 10 pages to a large table which has critical fumble rules for every possible weapon/enchantment/material combination.

Example:

Flaming +1 Silvered Longsword - On a Critical Fumble this blade flies from your hand, striking the neared gnome.

Cold Iron Goblin-Bane Heavy Flail - Aliens decend and "beam" the weapon out of your hand. 2000 years later, it mysteriously reappears in Roswell, NM.

Oh, Rolemaster!

-Hyp.

Patryn of Elvenshae · Aug 19, 2005

Hypersmurf said:
Oh, Rolemaster!

-Hyp.

I was thinking the same thing - although, to be honest, there would need to be at least two tables consulted: one for weapon type, and one for time of day.

Patryn of Elvenshae · Aug 19, 2005

The other issue is that something as simple as "You drop your weapon" isn't even very good.

A dropped weapon in Round 1 means that, in Round 2, I need to:

1. Draw a new weapon, as a move action, or
2. Retrieve my old weapon from the ground, a move action that provokes an AoO

In either case, a critical fumble in Round 1 has prevented me from using a Full Attack action in Round 2, and possibly given my enemy a free attack against me.

The "most balanced" critical fumble rule I've encountered is "On a confirmed natural 1, you provoke an AoO from your target."

Note that even this has problems - it generally means that ranged-attack users don't really suffer from critical fumbles, and it still means that high-level fighters fumble more often than low level fighters.

In other words, I still don't like it.

melkorspawn · Aug 19, 2005

I've played with rules where if you roll a 1, confirm it, and fail a dc 12 reflex save, you hit yourself with (it's always been the fighter, and they've always been using a sword) your quillon. Subdual damage. It generally happens less than one tenth of one percent of the time, but it sucks when your front linesman going toe to toe with something awful knocks himself out.

Arbiter of Wyrms · Aug 19, 2005

Murrdox said:
Well, it's not so much a RULE as it is just the DM "deciding something interesting to happen". I'm sure he wouldn't "Break" a +5 Adamantine sword.

If it were ME, I'd probably think of something along the lines for that weapon as "You swing your sword at the Golem, and miss, striking the wall next to him. You swung with such force, the blade imbeds itself deep into the stone" - and then I'd require a mild STR check next turn to pull it out.

The weapon in question that broke was just a mundane longsword.

I think that this "ad hoc" ruling is probably the best and most common way of handling fumbles. (Certianly better, though perhaps less amusing than your suggestion in post 15:

Murrdox said:
Example:

Flaming +1 Silvered Longsword - On a Critical Fumble this blade flies from your hand, striking the neared gnome.

Cold Iron Goblin-Bane Heavy Flail - Aliens decend and "beam" the weapon out of your hand. 2000 years later, it mysteriously reappears in Roswell, NM.

That said, the house rule I use is this:
Natural 20s are resolved as though you had rolled a 30.
Natural 1s are resolved as though you had rolled a -10.
If you roll a natural 1 and miss, you lose your next attack, if you still have attacks remaining in this round.
If you roll a natural 1 and miss on your last, or only attack for the round, you incur an attack of opportunity from every foe who threatens you.

Lately, we've playing without the "20s are 30s and 1s are -10s" part of the rule and that seems to work out just fine, too.

Brother MacLaren · Aug 20, 2005

You are *already* penalized for rolling a 1 by the automatic miss. At low levels, there are rare cases where this comes into play (True Strike, charging smiting paladin), but they get more frequent at mid-levels. I've heard players opine that critical hits need to be "balanced" by critical fumbles. I think they're balanced by the monsters getting critical hits. Just my opinion.

danzig138 · Aug 20, 2005

Someone posted a DMG cite for it.
IMG, when i've used them, it was roll a 1, roll a DC 10 Reflex save. if this failed, you were open to attacks of opportunity. It seemed to affect PCs and bad guys about equally.

Tinker Gnome · Aug 20, 2005

IMC we have you roll to confirm it, but you just dmage yourself for the damage you roll. No dropping your weapon or breaking it.

Jhulae · Aug 20, 2005

Galeros said:
IMC we have you roll to confirm it, but you just dmage yourself for the damage you roll. No dropping your weapon or breaking it.

That makes absolutely no sense, as the people who are going to be coming into this situation are the most experienced fighters. You'd think a level 20 fighter would know much better how to not get hurt by his own weapon than a level 1. Yet, the 20th level is going to come into the situation where he *can* be hurt by his own weapon (even if he 'confirms' all the time) much more often than the 'newbie' fighter.

This alone shows that "Critical Fumbles are balanced by Critical Hits" is sophistic. The better and more practiced someone gets with a weapon, the less chance she has of doing something like hurting herself or dropping it or whatever. That's not the case with critical fumbles, as the situation comes up more often with the more attacks you have.

Scratched_back · Aug 20, 2005

Inspired by the thread title

Sorry all!

(See attachment)

Critical Fumble?

Hypersmurf

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